John Tan: "If non-conceptuality does not end up in non-mentation, then it will have to involve special insight that sees through conventional constructs that lead to direct authentication of suchness/pure appearances. Experiential insight of this relationship between the dissolution of mental constructs and empty clarity is Prajna. Realising this, one can then extend to body-construct and eventually to all other much more subtle constructs until natural state free of any artificialities."

"Actually anatta is a good direct method of pointing, analysis can later be used to support this direct experiential insight. Not easy for the path of analysis to trigger such insight. It will have to have a sudden leap or break-through much like koan."

(Commenting on someone else:) "This is like freedom from all elaborations into natural state. But instead of realizing the natural state that is primordially pure, one can be misled and led into non-conceptuality of non-mentation."

p.s. was reminded of this verse by Khamtrul Rinpoche and John Tan's comments:

"At that point, is the observer—awareness—other than the
observed—stillness and movement—or is it actually that stillness and
movement itself? By investigating with the gaze of your own awareness,
you come to understand that that which is investigating itself is also
no other than stillness and movement. Once this happens you will
experience lucid emptiness as the naturally luminous self-knowing
awareness. Ultimately, whether we say nature and radiance, undesirable
and antidote, observer and observed, mindfulness and thoughts, stillness
and movement, etc., you should know that the terms of each pair are no
different from one another; by receiving the blessing of the guru,
properly ascertain that they are inseparable. Ultimately, to arrive at
the expanse free of observer and observed is the realization
of the true meaning and the culmination of all analyses. This is called
“the view transcending concepts,” which is free of conceptualization,
or “the vajra mind view.”

"Fruition vipashyana is the correct realization of the final conviction of the nonduality of observer and observed."

Khamtrul Rinpoche III. The Royal Seal of Mahamudra: Volume One: A
Guidebook for the Realization of Coemergence: 1 (p. 242). Shambhala.

John Tan commented on the above:

[9:14 PM, 6/20/2020] John Tan: This is not just mere experience.
[9:15 PM, 6/20/2020] John Tan: It sees through the conventions and analysis and realized the emptiness of these conventions...

[7:52 PM, 6/20/2020] John Tan: Until the meditator or agent disappears for good.
[7:53 PM, 6/20/2020] John Tan: Few integrate total exertion and DO into anatta (except Dogen) as the right view, pretty sad.
[7:54 PM, 6/20/2020] John Tan: But there r some articles that r really good by some tibetan masters.

[7:58 PM, 6/20/2020] Soh Wei Yu: which articles?

[8:02 PM, 6/20/2020] John Tan: I was scanning through our blog and found one article u posted about resting in the 6 senses. Forgotten by which karmapa.
[8:03 PM, 6/20/2020] Soh Wei Yu: oh.. this one
[8:05 PM, 6/20/2020] John Tan: U r good at finding🤣🤣🤣
[8:05 PM, 6/20/2020] John Tan: Next time I can just ask u...
[8:05 PM, 6/20/2020] John Tan: Lol


Relevant links for further reading:

On anatta stanzas and bahiya sutta:

Anatta stanzas (article by John / Thusness):

Bahiya Sutta: , (my own commentary)

Soh Wei Yu
Non-conceptuality as a practice of suspending conceptuality into Pure Presence is still important for the initial breakthrough into I AM and even up to no-mind (vivid appearances as pure presence without any sense of self/Self/subject/object/agent-action). A state of no-mind is still not the same as the insight of anatman [as dharma seal]. But for no-mind to become effortless natural state, need to begin to penetrate the view of inherency/inherent existence, starting from self (the anatta realization), which will make no-mind a natural state/effortless without entry or exit, then extend it to all phenomena (twofold emptiness). After these insights, practice is mostly non-conceptual and free from elaborations but it is not merely a state of non-mentation, since practice is based on "The Prajna that Penetrates Constructs and Directly Authenticates Suchness/Pure Appearances".
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