Someone wrote: "wisdom can only exist if ignorance is reified, they're both flip sides of the same non-existent coin, just more interpretation by the mind, that's why i tend towards "innocence""
The awakening of wisdom is only possible when ignorance is seen through, however wisdom is not 'just more interpretation'. It is a form of awakeness, it is a direct prajna wisdom where the true nature of experience/mind being empty is directly apprehended. This is what liberates, there is no liberation when the bonds of delusion persist. One can remain non-conceptual and luminous, but non-conceptuality is not what liberates the bond. The bond of perceiving inherent existence and self persists even in states of non-conceptuality. It does not resolve the deep-seated delusion.
As Thusness wrote to me in 2013:
Thusness Sunday, September 29, 2013 at 6:20pm UTC+08
There must b clear understanding of right and wrong understanding, ignorance and wisdom. What u r doing and subscribing is using experience to replace right understanding.
Thusness Sunday, September 29, 2013 at 6:23pm UTC+08
Ignorance is that tendency to c things inherently or "things" truly exist or there r "things". Wisdom is to c through that "thingness" via DO and realized emptiness...that nothing arise, come, go, life, death...
(note by me: 'things' include 'Awareness', seeing 'Awareness' as inherently existing is also bondage)
.............
26/2/13 9:42:12 AM: Thusness: U experience them in terms of sensation
26/2/13 9:42:36 AM: AEN: Yes
26/2/13 9:44:48 AM: Thusness: What u r going through is freeing these "constructs" that bond u at the deepest lvl
26/2/13 9:45:43 AM: Thusness: But that is not being "non-conceptual" alone but by wisdom
26/2/13 9:46:19 AM: Thusness: Experience will naturally turn luminous and liberating experience wholely via losing center, not by intensifying experience.
26/2/13 8:53:42 PM: Thusness: With regards to locality, deconstruction implies freeing the tendency of getting bonded ... So u must feel and experience this freeing of oneself from this bond
26/2/13 8:54:38 PM: Thusness: Means whenever and where ever arising manifest, there must b this freedom
26/2/13 8:55:42 PM: Thusness: That sense of center and locality must dissolve.
16/3/13 1:02:48 AM: Thusness: Ignorance is like an endless loop
16/3/13 1:04:21 AM: Thusness: U penetrated object with direct non-conceptual experience, it hides in subject
16/3/13 1:05:09 AM: Thusness: U destroy object, it hides in here/now, there/here, in/out
16/3/13 1:06:25 AM: Thusness: Becoz the fundamental ignorance is there
16/3/13 1:07:04 AM: Thusness: With that view, there is no true overcoming
16/3/13 1:07:42 AM: Thusness: Objects will still appear to b external
16/3/13 1:07:58 AM: Thusness: Even after non-dual
16/3/13 1:08:37 AM: Thusness: A practitioner din really overcome it
16/3/13 1:11:13 AM: Thusness: U will hv to feel it with ur entire body-mind with that view to understand
16/3/13 1:12:34 AM: Thusness: And compare with the deconstruction of "emptiness"
16/3/13 1:14:05 AM: Thusness: If we hold substantial view, we will always feel something has changed to something
16/3/13 1:14:28 AM: Thusness: And we want to understand it that way
16/3/13 1:15:04 AM: Thusness: Therefore we r unable to overcome the source, appearances and apparent objects
16/3/13 1:15:48 AM: Thusness: How is something so solid and external is "mind"
16/3/13 1:19:24 AM: Thusness: Also when u realized there is no hearer behind sound and initially penetrated anatta, it does not mean u hv overcome appearances and apparent objects too
16/3/13 1:19:32 AM: Thusness: What is lacking?
16/3/13 1:19:55 AM: AEN: Insight that penetrates empty nature of objects ?
16/3/13 1:21:52 AM: Thusness: Yes only when one begin to "realize" emptiness and look into the experience of anatta and understand this "emptying"
16/3/13 1:23:27 AM: Thusness: Until it replaces that "inherent/dualistic" and apply it endlessly
16/3/13 1:23:57 AM: Thusness: When u look into Self/self it is empty
16/3/13 1:24:12 AM: Thusness: When u look into aggregates, it is empty
16/3/13 1:24:29 AM: Thusness: When u look at here/now, it is empty
16/3/13 1:25:15 AM: Thusness: When u look into in/out, it is empty then u begin to overcome appearances and apparent objects
16/3/13 1:27:17 AM: Thusness: R u denying Awareness?
16/3/13 1:27:30 AM: AEN: No
16/3/13 1:27:44 AM: AEN: Deconstruction is not denial
16/3/13 1:27:57 AM: AEN: But seeing inherent dualistic view
16/3/13 1:28:11 AM: AEN: Through
16/3/13 1:31:03 AM: Thusness: That is liberating it
16/3/13 1:31:21 AM: AEN: I see..
16/3/13 1:32:36 AM: Thusness: Life, death, here, now, this, that, subject, object...etc
16/3/13 1:32:57 AM: Thusness: Is there a substance?
16/3/13 1:33:33 AM: Thusness: Or the same substance being transformed into another
16/3/13 1:33:53 AM: Thusness: Is the current thought the same as previous thought
16/3/13 1:34:08 AM: AEN: Nope
16/3/13 1:34:10 AM: Thusness: The entire view has changed
16/3/13 1:34:20 AM: Thusness: It does not apply
16/3/13 1:35:03 AM: Thusness: All along we hv understood our immediate experience wrongly and treat that as ultimate
16/3/13 1:36:06 AM: Thusness: Then non-dual experience will turn liberating
16/3/13 1:36:46 AM: Thusness: Next look into total exertion
16/3/13 1:45:32 AM: Thusness: When u see a table, is there a truly existing "table"
16/3/13 1:46:29 AM: Thusness: When I say awareness, is there a truly existing awareness
16/3/13 1:46:54 AM: Thusness: When we say "here", is there a "here"
16/3/13 1:47:07 AM: Thusness: When we say now, is there a now
16/3/13 1:47:46 AM: Thusness: Some use analytical way of deconstructing into parts
16/3/13 1:48:18 AM: Thusness: As for me, it is total exertion of this immediate formation
16/3/13 1:50:28 AM: Thusness: Until luminosity, total exertion and emptiness becomes seem less
16/3/13 1:50:32 AM: Thusness: Seamless
16/3/13 1:51:48 AM: Thusness: The view that there must b an essence that continue from here to there, from now to then is overcome
16/3/13 1:52:25 AM: Thusness: Experience is as direct, non-conceptual, non dual and liberating
Thusness Monday, December 9, 2013 at 9:29pm UTC+08
The more I read, the more I find the essence of what liberates is not clearly expressed...rather what expressed is more on non-dual clarity
Thusness Monday, December 9, 2013 at 9:46pm UTC+08
Yeah...what liberates with ur current experience and insights?
AEN Monday, December 9, 2013 at 10:34pm UTC+08
anatta, emptiness and impermanence... all these breaks various clinging be it self, here, now, it, etc
Thusness Monday, December 9, 2013 at 10:36pm UTC+08
Yes. Simple and why it becomes complex is because of the many faces of grasping.
The awakening of wisdom is only possible when ignorance is seen through, however wisdom is not 'just more interpretation'. It is a form of awakeness, it is a direct prajna wisdom where the true nature of experience/mind being empty is directly apprehended. This is what liberates, there is no liberation when the bonds of delusion persist. One can remain non-conceptual and luminous, but non-conceptuality is not what liberates the bond. The bond of perceiving inherent existence and self persists even in states of non-conceptuality. It does not resolve the deep-seated delusion.
As Thusness wrote to me in 2013:
Thusness Sunday, September 29, 2013 at 6:20pm UTC+08
There must b clear understanding of right and wrong understanding, ignorance and wisdom. What u r doing and subscribing is using experience to replace right understanding.
Thusness Sunday, September 29, 2013 at 6:23pm UTC+08
Ignorance is that tendency to c things inherently or "things" truly exist or there r "things". Wisdom is to c through that "thingness" via DO and realized emptiness...that nothing arise, come, go, life, death...
(note by me: 'things' include 'Awareness', seeing 'Awareness' as inherently existing is also bondage)
.............
26/2/13 9:42:12 AM: Thusness: U experience them in terms of sensation
26/2/13 9:42:36 AM: AEN: Yes
26/2/13 9:44:48 AM: Thusness: What u r going through is freeing these "constructs" that bond u at the deepest lvl
26/2/13 9:45:43 AM: Thusness: But that is not being "non-conceptual" alone but by wisdom
26/2/13 9:46:19 AM: Thusness: Experience will naturally turn luminous and liberating experience wholely via losing center, not by intensifying experience.
26/2/13 8:53:42 PM: Thusness: With regards to locality, deconstruction implies freeing the tendency of getting bonded ... So u must feel and experience this freeing of oneself from this bond
26/2/13 8:54:38 PM: Thusness: Means whenever and where ever arising manifest, there must b this freedom
26/2/13 8:55:42 PM: Thusness: That sense of center and locality must dissolve.
16/3/13 1:02:48 AM: Thusness: Ignorance is like an endless loop
16/3/13 1:04:21 AM: Thusness: U penetrated object with direct non-conceptual experience, it hides in subject
16/3/13 1:05:09 AM: Thusness: U destroy object, it hides in here/now, there/here, in/out
16/3/13 1:06:25 AM: Thusness: Becoz the fundamental ignorance is there
16/3/13 1:07:04 AM: Thusness: With that view, there is no true overcoming
16/3/13 1:07:42 AM: Thusness: Objects will still appear to b external
16/3/13 1:07:58 AM: Thusness: Even after non-dual
16/3/13 1:08:37 AM: Thusness: A practitioner din really overcome it
16/3/13 1:11:13 AM: Thusness: U will hv to feel it with ur entire body-mind with that view to understand
16/3/13 1:12:34 AM: Thusness: And compare with the deconstruction of "emptiness"
16/3/13 1:14:05 AM: Thusness: If we hold substantial view, we will always feel something has changed to something
16/3/13 1:14:28 AM: Thusness: And we want to understand it that way
16/3/13 1:15:04 AM: Thusness: Therefore we r unable to overcome the source, appearances and apparent objects
16/3/13 1:15:48 AM: Thusness: How is something so solid and external is "mind"
16/3/13 1:19:24 AM: Thusness: Also when u realized there is no hearer behind sound and initially penetrated anatta, it does not mean u hv overcome appearances and apparent objects too
16/3/13 1:19:32 AM: Thusness: What is lacking?
16/3/13 1:19:55 AM: AEN: Insight that penetrates empty nature of objects ?
16/3/13 1:21:52 AM: Thusness: Yes only when one begin to "realize" emptiness and look into the experience of anatta and understand this "emptying"
16/3/13 1:23:27 AM: Thusness: Until it replaces that "inherent/dualistic" and apply it endlessly
16/3/13 1:23:57 AM: Thusness: When u look into Self/self it is empty
16/3/13 1:24:12 AM: Thusness: When u look into aggregates, it is empty
16/3/13 1:24:29 AM: Thusness: When u look at here/now, it is empty
16/3/13 1:25:15 AM: Thusness: When u look into in/out, it is empty then u begin to overcome appearances and apparent objects
16/3/13 1:27:17 AM: Thusness: R u denying Awareness?
16/3/13 1:27:30 AM: AEN: No
16/3/13 1:27:44 AM: AEN: Deconstruction is not denial
16/3/13 1:27:57 AM: AEN: But seeing inherent dualistic view
16/3/13 1:28:11 AM: AEN: Through
16/3/13 1:31:03 AM: Thusness: That is liberating it
16/3/13 1:31:21 AM: AEN: I see..
16/3/13 1:32:36 AM: Thusness: Life, death, here, now, this, that, subject, object...etc
16/3/13 1:32:57 AM: Thusness: Is there a substance?
16/3/13 1:33:33 AM: Thusness: Or the same substance being transformed into another
16/3/13 1:33:53 AM: Thusness: Is the current thought the same as previous thought
16/3/13 1:34:08 AM: AEN: Nope
16/3/13 1:34:10 AM: Thusness: The entire view has changed
16/3/13 1:34:20 AM: Thusness: It does not apply
16/3/13 1:35:03 AM: Thusness: All along we hv understood our immediate experience wrongly and treat that as ultimate
16/3/13 1:36:06 AM: Thusness: Then non-dual experience will turn liberating
16/3/13 1:36:46 AM: Thusness: Next look into total exertion
16/3/13 1:45:32 AM: Thusness: When u see a table, is there a truly existing "table"
16/3/13 1:46:29 AM: Thusness: When I say awareness, is there a truly existing awareness
16/3/13 1:46:54 AM: Thusness: When we say "here", is there a "here"
16/3/13 1:47:07 AM: Thusness: When we say now, is there a now
16/3/13 1:47:46 AM: Thusness: Some use analytical way of deconstructing into parts
16/3/13 1:48:18 AM: Thusness: As for me, it is total exertion of this immediate formation
16/3/13 1:50:28 AM: Thusness: Until luminosity, total exertion and emptiness becomes seem less
16/3/13 1:50:32 AM: Thusness: Seamless
16/3/13 1:51:48 AM: Thusness: The view that there must b an essence that continue from here to there, from now to then is overcome
16/3/13 1:52:25 AM: Thusness: Experience is as direct, non-conceptual, non dual and liberating
Thusness Monday, December 9, 2013 at 9:29pm UTC+08
The more I read, the more I find the essence of what liberates is not clearly expressed...rather what expressed is more on non-dual clarity
Thusness Monday, December 9, 2013 at 9:46pm UTC+08
Yeah...what liberates with ur current experience and insights?
AEN Monday, December 9, 2013 at 10:34pm UTC+08
anatta, emptiness and impermanence... all these breaks various clinging be it self, here, now, it, etc
Thusness Monday, December 9, 2013 at 10:36pm UTC+08
Yes. Simple and why it becomes complex is because of the many faces of grasping.