Longchenpa, Space and Primordial Purity
Soh

 

When Longchenpa talks about space, he wasn’t referring to some space like awareness as background of phenomena. He’s talk about the empty nature of spontaneous presence, primordially pure, vivid yet empty, luminous and non-arisen, free from the extremes of existence and non-existence, all phenomena are equivalent to space and illusion. (Flipping through some books in the Buddhist bookstore, Longchenpa and Milarepa books caught my eye)




  • Geovani Geo
    And... can this "space" be other then "no-otherness"; where no separate autonomous "no-otherness" can be found?
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    • Soh Wei Yu
      Geovani Geo Dzogchen teacher Acarya Malcolm Smith wrote years ago:
      “In the basis (Tibetan: གཞི, Wylie: gzhi) there were neutral awarenesses (sh shes pa lung ma bstan) that did not recognize themselves. (Dzogchen texts actually do not distinguish whether this neutral awareness is one or multiple.) This non-recognition was the innate ignorance. Due to traces of action and affliction from a previous universe, the basis became stirred and the Five Pure Lights shone out. When a neutral awareness recognized the lights as its own display, that was Samantabhadra (immediate liberation without the performance of virtue). Other neutral awarenesses did not recognize the lights as their own display, and thus imputed “other” onto the lights. This imputation of “self” and “other” was the imputing ignorance. This ignorance started sentient beings and samsara (even without non-virtue having been committed). Yet everything is illusory, since the basis never displays as anything other than the five lights.”
      Kyle Dixon:
      “I’m obviously preferable to the Dzogchen system because I started there and although branching out, my primary interest has remained there. But I do appreciate the run-down of avidyā or ignorance in the Dzogchen system because it is tiered and accounts for this disparity I am addressing.
      There are two or three levels of ignorance which are more like aspects of our delusion regarding the nature of phenomena. The point of interest in that is the separation of what is called “innate” (or “connate”) ignorance, from what is called “imputing ignorance.”
      The imputing ignorance is the designating of various entities, dimension of experience and so on. And one’s identity results from that activity.
      The connate ignorance is the failure to correctly apprehend the nature of phenomena. The very non-recognition of the way things really are.
      This is important because you can have the connate ignorance remain in tact without the presence of the imputing ignorance.
      This separation is not even apparent through the stilling of imputation like in śamatha. But it can be made readily apparent in instances where you awaken from sleep, perhaps in a strange location, on vacation etc., or even just awakening from a deep sleep. There can be a period of moments where you do not realize where you are right yet, and then suddenly it all comes back, where you are, what you have planned for the day, where you need to be, etc.,
      In those initial moments you are still conscious and perceiving appearances, and there is still an innate experience of the room being external and objects being something over-there, separate from oneself. That is because this fundamental error in recognition of the nature of phenomena is a deep conditioning that creates the artificial bifurcation of inner and outer experiential dimensions, even without the activity of imputation.”
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Self-Originated / Self-Arising Wisdom and Appearances
Soh

 John Tan wrote in 2022,


"To me self-originated/arising is just non-afflictive dependent orgination.  

The phrase dependent orgination is not used because DO, in classical Buddhist doctrine, is often used to explain the afflictive 12-linked model that initiates from ignorance to explain the cause of suffering.

When mind is free from the 3 sphere of subject-action-object, free from all elaborations, there is no conceptual delineation, no separation nor union, there is only pure appearances fully exerted as self-arising wisdom.

Dzogchen separates consciousness into "mind" and "wisdom".  Mind is dualistic, conceptual and afflictive whereas wisdom is non-dual, non-conceptual and pure but both are consciousness.  It is just a more elegant way for the purpose of teaching and provides more clarity otherwise it becomes confusing to explain the cause of suffering.  Same goes for DO and self-arising wisdom.  Tsongkhapa and chinese buddhism esp just use DO to explain. That is how I see it."

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Analytical Cessation Liberates
Soh

 Told someone having "no mind" experiences:



So when you contemplate, you should not chase after experiences


But challenge and investigate the seer-seeing-seen construct and paradigm in direct experience with the help of bahiya sutta and the two stanzas until it is seen through and doubtless


“We are not trying to merge knower and known!

To someone transitioning from I AM to nondual (only begun talking with him yesterday), I pointed out anatta to him a few moments ago, I have a feeling he will breakthrough to anatta soon:

Mr. C:

“The transience itself rolls and knows”…that is awesome. It pulled me into a more clear state when I first read it and again just now. This was the right thing to resend:)

Soh:

yes and its always already so! like when we say.. fire is burning... its totally an illusion if you imagine fire is something 'behind' burning, or fire is the 'agent' or 'watcher' of burning. thats ridiculous isnt it?

and yet we imagine 'awareness' was something behind 'transience'

its the same

fire is just the burning, fire is not 'doing' the burning

lightning flash -- lightning is the flasher? no. lightning is just another word for flash. lightning is flashing is just another way of saying 'flashing is happening'.

thunder roars -- thunder is the agent of roaring? no. thunder is just roar. wind blows? wind is just blowing. seeing sees scenery? seeing is just colors, no seer. hearing hears sounds? actually, hearing is only ever sound, never been a hearer. always already so.

thats why realisation is so important, you must see through the delusion that it never was like that

its not that you merge fire and burning, its not that you are trying to merge lightning with the flash, its not that you are trying to merge wind with the blowing. it is not that we are trying to merge knower and known. its to realise both are never valid in themselves in the first place, both poles are non-arisen.

as i sent someone a few moments ago:

"like how krodha/kyle dixon described:

"'Self luminous' and 'self knowing' are concepts which are used to convey the absence of a subjective reference point which is mediating the manifestation of appearance. Instead of a subjective cognition or knower which is 'illuminating' objective appearances, it is realized that the sheer exertion of our cognition has always and only been the sheer exertion of appearance itself. Or rather that cognition and appearance are not valid as anything in themselves. Since both are merely fabricated qualities neither can be validated or found when sought. This is not a union of subject and object, but is the recognition that the subject and object never arose in the first place [advaya]. ", "The cognition is empty. That is what it means to recognize the nature of mind [sems nyid]. The clarity [cognition] of mind is recognized to be empty, which is sometimes parsed as the inseparability of clarity and emptiness, or nondual clarity and emptiness.""”


….


Yes but you are describing a state of no mind

Having an experience without background is not the same as realizing there never was a background subject or a seer or a seeing besides or behind the seen


The latter must arise as a realisation

So you need to analyse in direct experience


“III

Khamtrul Rinpoche on the realization of anatta in the Mahamudra text (recommended reading! with lots of pointers for contemplation too):

"At that point, is the observer—awareness—other than the
observed—stillness and movement—or is it actually that stillness and
movement itself? By investigating with the gaze of your own awareness,
you come to understand that that which is investigating itself is also
no other than stillness and movement. Once this happens you will
experience lucid emptiness as the naturally luminous self-knowing
awareness. Ultimately, whether we say nature and radiance, undesirable
and antidote, observer and observed, mindfulness and thoughts, stillness
and movement, etc., you should know that the terms of each pair are no
different from one another; by receiving the blessing of the guru,
properly ascertain that they are inseparable. Ultimately, to arrive at
the expanse free of observer and observed is the realization
of the true meaning and the culmination of all analyses. This is called
“the view transcending concepts,” which is free of conceptualization,
or “the vajra mind view.”

"Fruition vipashyana is the correct realization of the final conviction of the nonduality of observer and observed."

Khamtrul Rinpoche III. The Royal Seal of Mahamudra: Volume One: A
Guidebook for the Realization of Coemergence: 1 (p. 242). Shambhala.


John Tan commented on the above:

[9:14 PM, 6/20/2020] John Tan: This is not just mere experience.
[9:15 PM, 6/20/2020] John Tan: It sees through the conventions and analysis and realized the emptiness of these conventions...


[7:52 PM, 6/20/2020] John Tan: Until the meditator or agent disappears for good.
[7:53 PM, 6/20/2020] John Tan: Few integrate total exertion and DO into anatta (except Dogen) as the right view, pretty sad.
[7:54 PM, 6/20/2020] John Tan: But there r some articles that r really good by some tibetan masters.

[7:58 PM, 6/20/2020] Soh Wei Yu: which articles?

[8:02 PM, 6/20/2020] John Tan: I was scanning through our blog and found one article u posted about resting in the 6 senses.  Forgotten by which karmapa.
[8:03 PM, 6/20/2020] Soh Wei Yu: oh.. this one https://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2015/12/self-liberation-by-khamtrul-rinpoche-iii.html
[8:05 PM, 6/20/2020] John Tan: U r good at finding🤣🤣🤣
[8:05 PM, 6/20/2020] John Tan: Next time I can just ask u...
[8:05 PM, 6/20/2020] John Tan: Lol”

-
https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/search/label/Khamtrul%20Rinpoche%20III



In buddhism, non analytical cessations and samadhi does not liberate


Analytical cessation based on wisdom does

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