John Tan: If seen is just seen, then there is no movement.
John Tan: In the seen only the seen is also no seer, no seeing and nothing seen. There is no changing nor unchanging.
Soh: The nancy also said the same.. nothing changing or unchanging
[10:15 pm, 05/10/2021] John Tan: That is ultimate view.
[10:16 pm, 05/10/2021] John Tan: Conventionally, there is changes and impermanence and origination in dependence as the right way of expression.
We are infinite reflections without a source
Flowing thought dreams
Without sides or a middle
Dancing without movement or non movement
without direction or non direction
There are no colors or rainbows without us
Without an imaginary persona there is no imaginary heart
Loving all this
That is not this
There is no one to be free or bound
Or gaze as infinite awe painting the dream scape with colors that cannot be seen
No one to fall into your unutterable beauty
Or fall endlessly in love with you
At first this felt like, 'I am all this!"
Then it felt like, 'All this!'
Later it was .... 'Not even nothing...'
no eyes apart from the seeing....
no ears apart from the hearing
no sound separate from the listening...
no wind separate from your cheek
no love separate from your heart
the horizon that held the sky apart from the sea
the timeline from birth to death collapsed
as well as the time walker
and left this knowing and feeling that there are no things
simply an atemporal seamless flow without movement or non movement....
no things to be permeant or changing ...
feels like the first and last kiss ....
a constant union of what was never apart...
Soh: Sounds like she went through the stages
John Tan: 👍
“The next understanding you must have after anatta and
emptiness is to know that all qualities similar to those that are described and
sounded ontological are always manifesting presently, spontaneously and
effortlessly after the purification of anatta and emptiness insights. That is,
spontaneous arising is not just saying responding automatically. It is the
manifestation of these blissful characteristics of nature spontaneously. Non-arising,
unmoving, unchanging, pristiness, clarity... spontaneously present” – John Tan,
“Mr. T: I cannot find a ground a base, to identify with, everything is changing constantly. Arising and passing away. All of experience, where do I stand?
Kyle Dixon: Arising and passing away are characteristics of conditioned phenomena. As practitioners of the buddhadharma, our aim is to fully realize the unconditioned nature of phenomena, free of arising and cessation. That natural and perfect nature, is the true refuge.
Upon realizing that nature, the Buddha stated the following:
I have obtained the ambrosia of Dharma, profound, peaceful, immaculate, luminous and unconditioned. Even though I explain it, no one will understand, I think I will remain in the forest without speaking. Free from words, untrained by speech, suchness, the nature of Dharma, is like space free from the movements of mind and intellect, supreme, amazing, the sublime knowledge. Always like space, nonconceptual, luminous, the teaching without periphery or center is expressed in this Dharmawheel. Free from existence and nonexistence, beyond self and nonself, the teaching of natural nonarising is expressed in this Dharmawheel.
— The Ārya-lalitavistara-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra” – Kyle Dixon, 2021
"This is correct. "Permanent" is not referring to something not undergoing change, it refers to the absence of causing of arising." - John Tan, 2021
"To conclude, in the expanse of phenomena, there is no dual nature of appearance and emptiness, and no twofold division. Therefore, by a mere expression of language—through words—it is also said that the relative truth and ultimate truth are “indivisible.” Although the expanse is like this, separate categories are made merely in terms of the conventional, based on the way things appear. In this way, all phenomena included within samsara—all that is comprised by distorted perceptions and all that appears through the power of dualistic thought—are not real when analyzed. They are fluctuating and impermanent; therefore, these deceptive phenomena are the relative truth. And all phenomena comprised by great nirvana—which is difficult to realize and thus profound, free from constructs, and which is the luminous clarity of wisdom’s knowing, relinquished from all suffering—are beyond material and momentary phenomena. Therefore, they are free from the misery of change. Having the nature of immutability, they are the ultimate truth."
Duckworth, Douglas; Mipam, Jamgon. Jamgon Mipam: His Life and Teachings (p. 159). Shambhala. Kindle Edition.