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Soh Wei Yu
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This is an important point and clarification by kyle dixon. Emptiness is not about 1) things having parts, 2) things being impermanent, and 3) things being interdependent.
Krodha:
"The toy is made up of many small parts, and the parts are made up of even smaller parts. When you look close enough, you can't find anything that is truly solid or permanent."
Not to detract from the theme of this post, demystification, but traditionally, emptiness does not mean that objects are made of smaller parts. Candrakīrti refutes this idea in his Sevenfold Reasoning of the Chariot:
(i) There is no chariot which is other than its parts
(ii) There is no chariot which is the same as its parts
(iii) There is no chariot which possesses its parts
(iv) There is no chariot which depends on its parts
(v) There is no chariot upon which the parts depend
(vi) There is no chariot which is the collection of its parts
(vii) There is no chariot which is the shape of its parts
The point is to refute the object to begin with. The chariot or any other object is ultimately a misconception which has no parts, this is why a synonym for emptiness is an absence of characteristics.
….
Right but possessing characteristics (parts and pieces), being impermanent and interdependence are actually the antithesis of emptiness.
These are often referred to as doorways to emptiness, but they do not even conceptually capture the actual meaning of emptiness. Which is an absence of characteristics (which refutes parts and pieces), a negation of arising (which refutes impermanence) and a negation of svabhāva or an essence (which negates interdependence).
Further, interdependence [parabhāva] and dependent origination [pratītyasamutpāda] are not the same thing. Per Nāgārjuna, interdependence is just a guise for inherent existence [svabhāva] because it requires entities that depend upon one another.
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Yin Ling
the Reddit ppl will be so confused lol.
No partless particle is still an important step ma
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Soh Wei Yu
Was reminded of this:
https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/.../Nancy%20Neithercut
In the seen only the seen is also no seer, no seeing and nothing seen / No Movement
John Tan: If seen is just seen, then there is no movement.
Soh: Movement?
John Tan: In the seen only the seen is also no seer, no seeing and nothing seen. There is no changing nor unchanging.
Soh: Ic..
Soh: The nancy also said the same.. nothing changing or unchanging
[10:15 pm, 05/10/2021] John Tan: That is ultimate view.
[10:16 pm, 05/10/2021] John Tan: Conventionally, there is changes and impermanence and origination in dependence as the right way of expression.
Soh: https://nancyspoems.blogspot.com/
Nancy:
We are infinite reflections without a source
Echoes spinning
Fleeting images
Flowing thought dreams
Without sides or a middle
Dancing without movement or non movement
without direction or non direction
There are no colors or rainbows without us
Without an imaginary persona there is no imaginary heart
Beating
Loving all this
That is not this
Or that
Or both
Or neither
There is no one to be free or bound
Or gaze as infinite awe painting the dream scape with colors that cannot be seen
Only felt
No one to fall into your unutterable beauty
Or fall endlessly in love with you
….
At first this felt like, 'I am all this!"
Then it felt like, 'All this!'
Later it was .... 'Not even nothing...'
….
no eyes apart from the seeing....
no ears apart from the hearing
no sound separate from the listening...
no wind separate from your cheek
no love separate from your heart
no inside
no outside
the horizon that held the sky apart from the sea
untied itself
the timeline from birth to death collapsed
as well as the time walker
and left this knowing and feeling that there are no things
simply an atemporal seamless flow without movement or non movement....
no things to be permeant or changing ...
feels like the first and last kiss ....
a constant union of what was never apart...
Soh: Sounds like she went through the stages
John Tan: 👍
Awakening to Reality
AWAKENINGTOREALITY.COM
Awakening to Reality
Awakening to Reality
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Soh Wei Yu
“The next understanding you must have after anatta and emptiness is to know that all qualities similar to those that are described and sounded ontological are always manifesting presently, spontaneously and effortlessly after the purification of anatta and emptiness insights. That is, spontaneous arising is not just saying responding automatically. It is the manifestation of these blissful characteristics of nature spontaneously. Non-arising, unmoving, unchanging, pristiness, clarity... spontaneously present” – John Tan, 2009
“Mr. T: I cannot find a ground a base, to identify with, everything is changing constantly. Arising and passing away. All of experience, where do I stand?
Kyle Dixon: Arising and passing away are characteristics of conditioned phenomena. As practitioners of the buddhadharma, our aim is to fully realize the unconditioned nature of phenomena, free of arising and cessation. That natural and perfect nature, is the true refuge.
Upon realizing that nature, the Buddha stated the following:
I have obtained the ambrosia of Dharma, profound, peaceful, immaculate, luminous and unconditioned. Even though I explain it, no one will understand, I think I will remain in the forest without speaking. Free from words, untrained by speech, suchness, the nature of Dharma, is like space free from the movements of mind and intellect, supreme, amazing, the sublime knowledge. Always like space, nonconceptual, luminous, the teaching without periphery or center is expressed in this Dharmawheel. Free from existence and nonexistence, beyond self and nonself, the teaching of natural nonarising is expressed in this Dharmawheel.
— The Ārya-lalitavistara-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra” – Kyle Dixon, 2021
"This is correct. "Permanent" is not referring to something not undergoing change, it refers to the absence of causing of arising." - John Tan, 2021
"To conclude, in the expanse of phenomena, there is no dual nature of appearance and emptiness, and no twofold division. Therefore, by a mere expression of language—through words—it is also said that the relative truth and ultimate truth are “indivisible.” Although the expanse is like this, separate categories are made merely in terms of the conventional, based on the way things appear. In this way, all phenomena included within samsara—all that is comprised by distorted perceptions and all that appears through the power of dualistic thought—are not real when analyzed. They are fluctuating and impermanent; therefore, these deceptive phenomena are the relative truth. And all phenomena comprised by great nirvana—which is difficult to realize and thus profound, free from constructs, and which is the luminous clarity of wisdom’s knowing, relinquished from all suffering—are beyond material and momentary phenomena. Therefore, they are free from the misery of change. Having the nature of immutability, they are the ultimate truth."
- Mipham
Duckworth, Douglas; Mipam, Jamgon. Jamgon Mipam: His Life and Teachings (p. 159). Shambhala. Kindle Edition.
Labels: Anatta, Emptiness, Movement, Nancy Neithercut 0 comments | |
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John Tan
That will be jumping too fast. If there is no bearer of characteristic and no characteristic without characterization, what is that vivid happening? So what is dependent arising?
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