As I told you the insight trigger from "hearer hearing sound" and "ear, sound, ear-consciousness" are different. Also "ear, sound, ear-consciousness" imo is post anatta into phenomena and action.
[12:28 PM, 6/24/2020] Soh Wei Yu: Oic.. but ear sound ear consciousness is before deconstruction of ear and sound into total exertion right
[12:34 PM, 6/24/2020] John Tan: Post anatta, you are left with sound. When you look at sound from "ear, sound, ear-consciousness" we are led to total exertion.
[12:38 PM, 6/24/2020] John Tan: But before you talk about total exertion let's look at fluxing...
Buddha named consciousness after its ayatanas. This is to prevent us from abstracting and reifying a pure self standing consciousness. In other words, consciousness is in a perpetual state of fluxing and if you where to slice a moment out of this stream of consciousness-ing, it is always one of the six types of consciousness -- eye-consciousness, ear-consciousness, nose-consciousness, tongue-consciousness, body-consciousness and mental-consciousness.
[12:40 PM, 6/24/2020] Soh Wei Yu: Ic..
[12:41 PM, 6/24/2020] John Tan: Now what is that ear-consciousness?
[12:42 PM, 6/24/2020] Soh Wei Yu: Cannot be spoken besides in relation to ear and sound.. it is just that sound in relation to ear, manifesting that sound consciousness
[12:51 PM, 6/24/2020] John Tan: Yes. If I were to hit a bell with a stick and produce a "tingssss" sound...where and what is that "tingss"?
Is it in the stick, the bell, the air, the vibration of the air, the ear canal, the eardrum?
Also is that "tingss" produced? Is it caused?
[12:53 PM, 6/24/2020] John Tan: And if you take out a part of the conditions, is there still "tingss" at that moment?
[12:54 PM, 6/24/2020] Soh Wei Yu: No
[12:55 PM, 6/24/2020] Soh Wei Yu: It is relational but not produced or caused
[1:00 PM, 6/24/2020] John Tan: The conventional world is populated with discrete separated objects as the mind sees in bits and pieces and languages play a role in enforcing the hoax of separations.
We link these separated objects and say this causes that. We must see through all these symbols and names constructs and cause and effect issues, not just no-self.
[1:08 PM, 6/24/2020] John Tan: When you say no? are you able to see how and y it is "no"? Like choosing, without all its parts, is it still that choosing?
When you flip a coin, can you flip the head without flipping the tail? When you flip the head, you are at the same time flipping the tail. So can the tail choose not to be flipped?
When we say sensation, sensation is always the sensation of something. Can there b sensation without an object? And we say sensation is not free from that something?
[1:20 PM, 6/24/2020] Soh Wei Yu: Ic.. yeah.. nothing can be found besides those relations. Sensation of heat cannot be found to reside somewhere besides the exertion of hand grasping on the cup and the hot coffee, etc etc.. Therefore unproduced, not inherent production or cause and effect... If produced then it could exist apart from those relations. Choosing also cannot be found besides the relations which volition plays an important role.. volition etc too is dependently originating. It is not determinism which is a kind of fixed view of inherent production, just dependent origination
[1:27 PM, 6/24/2020] Soh Wei Yu: Choosing is dependent on choosable objects, the subjective mental factors which includes ignorance, afflictions, habits, or conversely wisdom, mindfulness, willpower, external influences, internal rational reasoning, etc etc.. all those factors exerting in the activity of choosing
[1:27 PM, 6/24/2020] John Tan: It is not exactly important how words are being replaced but what exactly is "uprooted" from the process of decosntruction. It must lift the veil of "production" and separation, entity and it's characteristics to understand the vivid vibrancy of that "tingss"...
So there can be a direct pointing that enables one to taste without intermediary beyond names and forms of that "tingsss", a non-dual, non-local or total exerted experience, but that does not mean the intellectual blindspot is uprooted.
There can also b clear understanding of intellectually but somehow the blindspot is not lifted and a second pointing into the taste of clarity is needed.
[1:30 PM, 6/24/2020] John Tan: So direct experience is one thing, clearly seeing through and uprooting of the blindspots is altogether another question.
[1:40 PM, 6/24/2020] Soh Wei Yu: Oic..
[1:42 PM, 6/24/2020] John Tan: When I say soh is very successful, a damn good programmer. So when you look at "success" and see through this label, what did you see?
[1:43 PM, 6/24/2020] John Tan: Just suddenly successful?🤣🤣🤣
[1:43 PM, 6/24/2020] Soh Wei Yu: No.. years of gaining experience etc
[1:43 PM, 6/24/2020] John Tan: Tell me more
[1:43 PM, 6/24/2020] John Tan: Everything ...
[1:43 PM, 6/24/2020] John Tan: Go into it...
[1:46 PM, 6/24/2020] Soh Wei Yu: It includes learning from teachers, working with others, learning from failures and mistakes, continually refining knowledge and learning, and experience, hmm... actually cannot finish listing all the factors lol..
[1:47 PM, 6/24/2020] John Tan: Yes...that includes coding ten of thousands of lines of codes, many sleepless nights, continual refining ones logic...etc
[1:48 PM, 6/24/2020] John Tan: All of these all is being exerted into soh as a good programmer here and now...
[1:49 PM, 6/24/2020] John Tan: So success is designated based on these conditions
[1:55 PM, 6/24/2020] John Tan: So soh that is here and now and the whole exertion, what is the difference?
[1:59 PM, 6/24/2020] Soh Wei Yu: No difference
[2:10 PM, 6/24/2020] John Tan: No difference how come?
[2:13 PM, 6/24/2020] Soh Wei Yu: Here and now is just another designation... cannot be found besides the whole exertion of ten directions and three times.. just like consciousness is named and designated after conditions
[2:37 PM, 6/24/2020] John Tan: Similarly, when you studying an object A, you will soon find that you are not just studying the object itself, you are at the same time studying it's environment, it's conditions...until the line between the thing you study and it's environment and conditions become a blur...until the boundaries and the divisions dissapears ... What can you realize from that?
[2:54 PM, 6/24/2020] Soh Wei Yu: To study something is to study the relations and exertion of everything involved
Reminds me of dogen..
To study the Buddha Way is to study the self. To study the self is to forget the self. To forget the self is to be actualized by myriad things. When actualized by myriad things, your body and mind as well as the bodies and minds of others drop away. No trace of enlightenment remains, and this no-trace continues endlessly.
[3:14 PM, 6/24/2020] Soh Wei Yu: Also dependent designations.. everything is dependent designations
[3:43 PM, 6/24/2020] John Tan: The Soh that is here and now and the whole exertion are not two different phenomena. The splitting up creates the impression as if they can be separated. As if you can choose some part and still retain the same successful Soh at the moment. We also create a cause and effect relationship as if Soh that is here and now is a puppet that can't do anything.
Like the head and tail of a coin, they are two aspects of the same coin. The mind that sees the bits and pieces and the language creates an alienated experience and confusions.
All these deconstructions and uprooting of blindspots are to allow the full and total experience of the sound "tingss". Each moment is also the dynamic total participation of the entire situation of the three times.
So in the total exertion of that "tingss", there is no outside, no inside, therefore nothing to cause...no cause, no conditions, no self, no arising, no ceasing. Effortless, boundless, immense, vibrantly alive and free.