John Tan:

Soh: Is this good?

[9:52 am, 02/01/2022] John Tan: This almaas seems interesting.  Going through the phases of insights into total exertion.  After 25 mins, he tries to express total if he wanted to squeeze everything out to express out but he couldn't🤣🤣🤣🤦‍♂️
[10:00 am, 02/01/2022] John Tan: Yes it is, quite good.  Maybe worth exploring his thoughts and understandings at least he is not restricted to -A of emptiness.  Tibetan exploration is too restricted to emptiness free from elaborations except Tsongkhapa but the exploration is probably left to his tantric practices.  U will be surprised to know that Tsongkhapa carries the avatamsaka sutra into his every retreat so that clears my suspect that he is into total exertion.

Soh: Oic.. wow
I thought avatamsaka sutra is alien to tibetan buddhism

John Tan: Yes it is recorded in his secret biography and he praised the avatamsaka sutra a lot.

Soh: Wow
Did you watch this also:


John Tan: No, this is the first time I look into almaas though I heard of him and his work before.  But those ppl quoted him in the past from what I read is more abt non-dual and oneness so I m not very interested.
Soh: Oic
His recent one or two books are on total exertion and anatta
John Tan: Is it?
Soh: Yeah
[10:08 am, 02/01/2022] John Tan: Which 2?
[10:09 am, 02/01/2022] John Tan: Maybe will be interesting to look into them.  Not easy to find a modern spiritual practitioner that explore this.
Soh: These two
[10:10 am, 02/01/2022] John Tan: Written when?
[10:10 am, 02/01/2022] John Tan: Got Kindle?
Soh: 2014 (runaway realization) the alchemy of freedom 2017
He has even more recent books since but i havent looked into it

John Tan: Read his money recent better

Soh: I have his book alchemy of freedom but haven’t read it but skimmed through
Alchemy of freedom definitely about anatta and total exertion

John Tan: Many of his old expressions from what I know r restricted to just non-dual presence that is y I never have any deep impression at all.  So probably look at his more recent books.

Soh, 3 weeks ago:

Soh, 3 weeks ago: Ah almaas seems v much into anatta and total exertion since studying dogen years ago.. i remember his earlier works all on i am and one mind

John Tan: This is surprisingly good.  Means almaas is quite a serious practitioner.👍 You sent me this YouTube?

Soh: Yeah i sent u three weeks ago
But i havent watched 🤣🤣

John Tan: Go watch. It is good.👍


John Tan: Ic.  From Tibetan non-gelug point of view yes.  Any form of knowing, in fact any form of apprehension is dualistic and grasping essence in nature.  Tsongkhapa tried to moderate this by introducing the concept of "mere existence".

It is not easy to understand Dogen's thought and experience from this perspective as to Dogen enlightenment cannot be understood apart from practice - practice-enlightenment.  There is not even a single moment there has been any separation from beginningless time, fully intimate and fully embodied.  Further "suchness" cannot also be understood "in-dualistic-relation" also, there anything short of total exertion is not the enlightenment view.  Suchness or "seen is just seen" when expressed as total exertion is sort of non-local and holographic, not restricted to a "dualistic" expression.  That is y his expressions is so cryptic, more cryptic then mmk.🤣🤣🤣


John Tan: “Total exertion is about a single thing, a single event, a single action. Seen is just seen, walking is just walking. Yet this single event is a total participation.
Suchness is beyond speech and termination of words as conventionally, words can only express right and inherent thought linked by relations. However Almaas though talk about oneness and I AM and total exertion, he must also understand -A that is free from all elaborations is equality non-dual and non-local in taste, there is no difference.
The message carried in his video is that the single thing is in our everydayness not resorting elsewhere, no referencing needed, no oneness, no is the single thing, ash is the single thing, by itself it is all and involved all 三千世界.”
Note: San qian shi jie 三千世界 = the three thousand world systems, aka. the cosmos


Soh: did A. H. Almaas talk about -A emptiness?

[2:59 pm, 02/01/2022] John Tan: Yes briefly the various phases of insights and the difference in insights and experiences should not be treated as the same which is good. But strictly speaking freedom from all elaborations into spontaneous presence should also not be tainted from "awareness" as both mind and phenomena are already deconstructed.
[3:03 pm, 02/01/2022] John Tan: Yeah he din call it "total exertion" but "unilocality" a modern term to mean total participation without being obstructed by locality and time.  I suspect Malcolm also somehow has this idea also as in one of his zoom sessions I rem he mentioned about in dzogchen "non-duality" maintains "diversities" and is different from the rest including Yogacara's collapsing of subject and object duality.

  • Soh Wei Yu
    John Tan has been finding speakers on non-locality post-anatta since the first time I know him. Glad A H Almaas is talking about it -- anatta, non locality and total exertion.

    John Tan in 2006:
    (1:17 PM) John: i m looking for books that is beyond anatta and brings into the view of emptiness with non centricity and non-locality
    (1:17 PM) John: i wonder any practitioner has experienced that and put it into words. 😛
    (1:17 PM) AEN: oic..
    (1:17 PM) AEN: so far none?
    (1:17 PM) AEN: ken wilber also never write?
    (1:17 PM) John: not so much of beyond the experience of no-self but more of one that thoroughly understand no-self
    (1:18 PM) AEN: oic
    (1:18 PM) John: and yet experience the essence of emptiness nature intuitively
    (1:18 PM) AEN: icic
    (1:21 PM) John: books like eckhart tolle will be good. Never over emphasize anything
    (1:21 PM) AEN: oic..
    (1:21 PM) John: clear simple and lucid
    (1:21 PM) AEN: icic
    (1:21 PM) John: but i am looking for something more than that.
    (1:22 PM) John: anyone that has thorough experienced no-self for few years, i am interested....eheheh
    (1:22 PM) AEN: oic..
    (1:24 PM) AEN: by the way u found books on ramesh balsekar yet?
    (1:24 PM) John: nope...only nm
    (1:25 PM) AEN: icic
    (1:25 PM) John: hmm....interesting...emptiness and non locality...seems like quite a lot of articles
    (1:25 PM) AEN: oic where;
    (1:07 PM) Thusness: i want to find someone that truly have intuitive experience of the non-locality aspect of emptiness and already stabilized that experience.
    (1:07 PM) Thusness: 🙂
    (1:07 PM) Thusness: but i know most bluff their way through. 😛
    (1:08 PM) AEN: back
    (1:08 PM) Thusness: if there is one, i would definitely want to seek his guidance. 🙂
    (1:08 PM) AEN: oic
    (1:09 PM) Thusness: if i have not experience non locality aspect of emptiness, then why i placed so much emphasis and at times tok about it?
    (1:09 PM) Thusness: but no one really knows and therefore i can't discuss it further. 🙂
    (2:22 PM) Thusness: they should be a treasure.
    (2:23 PM) Thusness: i might get all his [David Loy]
    (2:23 PM) Thusness: the articles are good.
    (2:23 PM) AEN: wah lol
    (2:23 PM) AEN: icic
    (2:24 PM) Thusness: it is important to have right views. I worry u always get distorted views now and then. 😛
    (2:24 PM) AEN: haha like what views
    (2:24 PM) Thusness: it is normal lah.
    (2:25 PM) Thusness: because u are still using subject-object sort of understanding.
    (2:25 PM) AEN: oic
    (2:25 PM) Thusness: though u r introduced non-duality, no self, emptiness and spontaneous arising, ur mind is still unable to grasp the essence.
    (2:26 PM) Thusness: so u should complement it with meditative experience.
    (2:26 PM) AEN: icic..
    (2:27 PM) Thusness: but many cannot get to the depth of non locality. 🙂
    (2:27 PM) Thusness: this aspect is far beyond speech and requires only the cream of enlightened to really teach about it. 🙂
    (2:27 PM) AEN: icic..
    (2:28 PM) AEN: how about david loy
    (2:28 PM) Thusness: not to that depth yet.
    (2:28 PM) Thusness: to date none is qualified in my opinion. Maybe Buddha or Padmavambava. 😛

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  • Soh Wei Yu
    (2:54 PM) Thusness: but it is very difficult for for a layman to write from non-dual to non locality.
    (2:55 PM) AEN: oic..
    (2:55 PM) AEN: but he wrote non locality rite
    (2:55 PM) Thusness: not exactly.
    (2:55 PM) Thusness: though there is a lil about it. 🙂
    (2:55 PM) AEN: icic
    (2:56 PM) AEN: toni packer also clear about non dual rite
    (2:56 PM) Thusness: the factors of fearlessness and non-attachment must up to a sufficient depth before one can experience what i meant. 🙂
    (2:56 PM) AEN: icic..
    (2:56 PM) Thusness: toni packer is okie. 🙂
    (2:56 PM) AEN: icic..
    (2:56 PM) Thusness: i intro u because of ET (Eckhart Tolle). 😛
    (2:57 PM) Thusness: i think she is more clear about non dual than ET.
    (2:57 PM) AEN: ya her style a bit like ET in some ways
    (2:57 PM) AEN: icic ya
    (2:57 PM) Thusness: 🙂
    (2:58 PM) Thusness: u c, there is a commonality about those entering and dwell in non dual state.
    (2:58 PM) Thusness: they don't tok about i am.
    (2:58 PM) Thusness: or I.
    (2:58 PM) Thusness: or a background.
    (2:58 PM) AEN: oic
    (2:58 PM) Thusness: absolutely nothing.
    (2:58 PM) Thusness: nothing about a witness.
    (2:58 PM) AEN: icic..
    (2:58 PM) Thusness: even tony parsons
    (2:58 PM) Thusness: and that nathan gill?
    (2:59 PM) Thusness: though he tok about it in his earlier realisation.
    (2:59 PM) Thusness: that 'sense of self' must be completely eliminated.
    (2:59 PM) AEN: what earlier realisation
    (2:59 PM) AEN: oh nathan gill
    (3:00 PM) Thusness: in fact when one goes deeper, there can be no trace.
    (3:00 PM) AEN: icic..
    (3:00 PM) Thusness: if there is a trace, then that practitioner retrogress.
    (3:00 PM) Thusness: longchen no more tok about 'I' and "I AM" now.
    (3:00 PM) AEN: oic..
    (3:01 PM) Thusness: so give him another 30 yrs and if he works hard....will be a good collection for some youngsters. 😛
    (3:01 PM) Thusness: lol
    (3:02 PM) Thusness: u go save all David articles into a document for me.
    (3:02 PM) Thusness: ehehehe
    (3:02 PM) Thusness: then email me....
    (11:08 PM) Thusness: stage 6 is the non local aspect of awareness and the oneness with conditions
    (11:08 PM) Thusness: i called it the emptiness nature.
    (11:08 PM) AEN: oic
    (11:08 PM) Thusness: that is experiencing the interdependence as non-locality, not bounded in space and time
    (11:09 PM) Thusness: this is the non local aspect of awareness
    (11:09 PM) AEN: icic
    (11:09 PM) Thusness: so all the 6 stages cover the initial experience of subject, the source
    (11:10 PM) Thusness: then the non dual experience of subject-object but object into subject

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  • Soh Wei Yu
    (7:15 PM) John: i think eckhart tolle's book is quite inspiring. The depth of experience is there. Just that i can sync with toni's experience.
    (7:16 PM) John: The clarity and the questions she asked, i deeply sync with her. (Comments by Soh: Eckhart Tolle is more on I AMness aspect of Presence, Toni Packer is on more on anatta non-dual luminosity, mind-body drop and maha suchness was also mentioned)
    (7:16 PM) AEN: icic..
    (7:16 PM) AEN: oic
    (7:16 PM) AEN: eckhart tolle's depth of experience is there?
    (7:16 PM) John: I hope the next book has what i want. 🙂
    (7:16 PM) AEN: oic wat u want
    (7:17 PM) John: eckhart tolle's yes. But i think not to Toni's level. That is my opinion. Toni's is almost mirror bright. But I just cannot understand certain thing.
    (7:18 PM) AEN: oic..
    (7:18 PM) AEN: cannot understand wat
    (7:18 PM) John: about emptiness, there is something not there.
    (7:18 PM) John: initially i thought it should be a natural progression.
    (8:29 PM) John: many ppl can only write until the level what toni wrote.... I am looking for some non locality experiences.

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