Someone wrote
"
I feel there is something to be careful about when coming across these teachings, especially on internet groups and videos.
There
seems to be a focus on reaching insights, being right about practices,
and achieving a state that allows you to preach to others on this path.
I
want those who also feel like myself, that there is a great freedom in
letting go of any spirituality, paths, stages, insights, concepts and
practices, to open to the possibility that there is no end finish line
with set paths.
There
is great liberation in abandoning all aids and methods, to face this
storm completely unarmed. Then, with courage, beginning to dance in this
answerless space; to surrender into it and to open fully to whichever
forecast life brings.
Hope it helps anyone that may resonate!"
Soh replied:
"
Yes
I think we can see it in two (or more) ways.
In
a sense, practice-enlightenment is endless. The path of actualization
is endless. Even the Buddha and arahants sits in mindfulness and
retreats after their full awakening and enjoys practices like
mindfulness of breathing. It is no longer goal oriented for them (they
have “done what is to be done” or ended all afflictions) but simply a
way of pleasant abiding and setting a good example for others. This
endless practice-enlightenment is mentioned by John Tan in his stage 7
descriptions. Just sitting and just walking are the actualization of our
buddha nature.
Another
way of looking at things, from the traditional bhumi or buddhist
perspective, is that there is indeed an end goal. This is also a valid
view from the conventional perspective (from the ultimate perspective
all paths and even buddhahood is illusory - check out heart sutra)
because the buddha and his arahants did state unequivocally that there
is an end, it is the complete ending of afflictions that drives samsaric
rebirth and suffering (like arahantship), or the ending of the two
obscurations of emotions and cognitive obscurations (buddhahood). There
is such an end, but I have not found anyone online that I am convinced
have achieved that goal of buddhahood or the complete elimination of the
twin obscurations that constitutes the omniscience of buddhahood. To
deny this perspective (although to restrict yourself to only this
perspective will also be a limitation) would also be to fall into an
extreme. And although I consider my mentor John Tan to have reached an
advanced stage in his practice, his practice is still advancing to
greater heights and breakthroughs these few years, and he had
experiential breakthroughs that were related to eliminating subtle
cognitive obscurations. Even then I had no indications or hints from
John that he has completed his path, in fact it appears that he is
still on the path even today (but i am not a mind reader so who knows).
Still doing practice, advancing on the path and making breakthroughs.
There are stories of people attaining full buddhahood or rainbow body in
tibet in the last century, but none i have personally met or conversed
with."
Soh: "
Soh: "
So,
i do not see anatta realisation as an end, likewise i do not see it as
fourth path or arahantship like some might call it that way in pragmatic
dharma models.
It
is not that i deny the four paths, i just think anatta realisation is
still early days. More like sutta stream entry. Even if you realise
twofold emptiness it might be more like first bhumi for example rather
than instant buddhahood.
The insight of anatta is also not the finality as far as insights are concerned."
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- Soh Wei YuAdmin"open fully to whichever forecast life brings"
This is very important but will not be possible without insight of anatta. How can there be total openness to mere luminous manifestation if there is 'self' plus 'manifestation'? And even if one forgets self into a state of no mind, how can that state of no mind be anything but a mere glimpse or peak experience until very clear insight into anatta as dharma seal or 'what is always already the case' turns it into effortless and natural state?
Even after anatta there are still further depths of insight and actualization.. so it sounds simple but is not so simple in practice.This point is also related to this:John Tan:"...it seems that lots of effort need to be put in -- which is really not the case. The entire practice turns out to an undoing process. It is a process of gradually understanding the workings of our nature that is from beginning liberated but clouded by this sense of ‘self’ that is always trying to preserve, protect and ever attached. The entire sense of self is a ‘doing’. Whatever we do, positive or negative, is still doing. Ultimately there is not-even a letting go or let be, as there is already continuous dissolving and arising and this ever dissolving and arising turns out to be self-liberating. Without this ‘self’ or ‘Self’, there is no ‘doing’, there is only spontaneous arising. "~ Thusness (source: Non-dual and karmic patterns)"...When one is unable to see the truth of our nature, all letting go is nothing more than another form of holding in disguise. Therefore without the 'insight', there is no releasing.... it is a gradual process of deeper seeing. when it is seen, the letting go is natural. You cannot force yourself into giving up the self... purification to me is always these insights... non-dual and emptiness nature...."~ Thusness
Soh Wei Yu
Admin
Was reading an old post from Malcolm today, from 2011:
“You
see, that wisdom of vidyā, which is your basis neither increases nor
decreases, hence it is said in many Dzogchen texts, there is no path, no
stages, etc. On the other hand, our knowledge of that wisdom is either
lacking or partial, and thus we can speak of stages, paths and
practices.
Basically,
you folks are having an non-argument (after pages and pages) because in
Dzogchen both perspectives, gradual and non-gradual, are equally true
for everyone at the same time.”
“
Rig pa rang shar:
"...is
mounting the thirteenth stage, the wheel of letters. Next, abiding in
the vision of wisdom is mounting the fourteenth stage, Great Bliss.
Next, obtaining certainty in the stage of natural formation is mounting
the fifteenth stage, Samadhi. Next, the non-existence of anything higher
after wisdom naturally arises on the stage of original purity is
mounting the sixteenth stage, Highest Wisdom."
Wheel of Letters is a synonym for Vajradhara.”
“
This passage from the rig pa rang shar:
Then,
the free arising of appearances having understood the appearances of
wisdom is seen to be like a cloud of Dharma, mounting the tenth stage,
Clouds Of Dharma. That is the resting place of those persons who have
seen the truth, without giving this up they mount the stage.
Means
that in these schemata, this tenth stage is only equivalent to Mahāyāna
first bhumi. In the rig pa rang shar scheme, bhumis 1--9 are equivalent
to the common Mahāyāna path of accumulation and application. Bhumis
10-16 are equivalent to the Mahāyana path of seeing, cultivation and so
on.”
Soh Wei Yu
Admin
Interesting
I didn’t know that point: “Means that in these schemata, this tenth
stage is only equivalent to Mahāyāna first bhumi. In the rig pa rang
shar scheme, bhumis 1--9 are equivalent to the common Mahāyāna path of
accumulation and application. Bhumis 10-16 are equivalent to the
Mahāyana path of seeing, cultivation and so on.”
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Soh Wei YuAdmin
Also,
even after anatta insight it doesn't mean one should drop meditation
and techniques like a plague. That is a wrong understanding as well.
As John Tan wrote before many years ago,
"After
this insight, one must also be clear of the way of anatta and the path
of practice. Many wrongly conclude that because there is no-self, there
is nothing to do and nothing to practice. This is precisely using "self
view" to understand "anatta" despite having the insight.
It
does not mean because there is no-self, there is nothing to practice;
rather it is because there is no self, there is only ignorance and the
chain of afflicted activities. Practice therefore is about overcoming
ignorance and these chain of afflictive activities. There is no agent
but there is attention. Therefore practice is about wisdom, vipassana,
mindfulness and concentration. If there is no mastery over these
practices, there is no liberation. So one should not bullshit and psycho
ourselves into the wrong path of no-practice and waste the invaluable
insight of anatta. That said, there is the passive mode of practice of
choiceless awareness, but one should not misunderstand it as the
"default way" and such practice can hardly be considered "mastery" of
anything, much less liberation."
In
2013, Thusness said, "Anapanasati is good. After your insight [into
anatta], master a form of technique that can bring you to that the state
of anatta without going through a thought process." and on choiceless
awareness Thusness further commented, "Nothing wrong with choice. Only
problem is choice + awareness. It is that subtle thought, the thought
that misapprehend (Soh: falsely imputes/fabricates) the additional
"agent"."
“A
state of freedom is always a natural state, that is a state of mind
free from self/Self. You should familiarize yourself with the taste
first. Like doing breathing meditation until there is no-self and left
with the inhaling and exhaling... then understand what is meant by
releasing.”
Soh then directed the person to this article he wrote in 2019:
Soh Wei Yu shared a link.
Someone
here wrote: "apparently a number of people (Jim Newman for one) ...and
many others have woken to their true nature without getting lost in
the morass of stages and states of the various schools of
Buddhism.....through the new advaita teachers like Adyashanti or
Gangaji......you were lucky or talented but your journey is beyond the
average person.....and it appears to be a perilous journey to say the
least.....a few good teachers have pointed out that Buddhist meditation
is potentially dangerous...destabilizing ...to find out that there is
no one home.... can lead one off the deep end and it’s not pretty."
I replied:


What you'll find is that all those who awakened, even so called
spontaneous awakenings, were triggered by a deep desire to discover the
truth, and that may be by self enquiry or some other form of
contemplations and meditation practices.
Let's take a look at some actual cases of awakening, not limited to Buddhism:
Buddha - awakened to the truth of anatta, dependent origination and
complete liberation at the age of 35 after 6 years of mostly
practicing the wrong way (asceticism, then later practicing the
formless absorptions under two Samkhya teachers). It is very likely
that he attained the I AM stages, before renouncing those teachers and
sitting in meditation under the bodhi tree for 49 days before his final
awakening. During that 49 days he entered into blissful meditative
absorption of jhana, contemplated and realized dependent origination
and put an end to the taints of clinging/identity/desire/afflictions
that drives samsaric births.
Buddha then taught the dharma for 45 years, teaching the noble
eightfold path of practice as the sole means to liberation. He later
taught that even after attaining liberation himself, he continues to
consistently practice ardently, go for retreats, do intensive
meditation, in order to 1) it is a pleasant abiding to be doing
meditation, 2) to set a good example for other students. His other
arahant students have made similar statements in one way or another,
they all continued to practice meditation even after attaining
liberation and "done what is to be done", simply because it continues
to be a very beneficial and enjoyable thing to do. And there continues
to be countless cases of enlightenment achieved through ardent practice
of the four foundations of mindfulness taught by Buddha, which
consists of meditative mindfulness and contemplation in sitting, and
even in movement, on every arising experience.
Buddha had literally thousands of students attain the fourth and
final stage of liberation - arahantship - and many hundreds/thousands
more who attained the lower stages of awakening (sotapanna, sakadagami,
and anagami). By the numbers recounted in the suttas, he was the most
effective and efficient teacher in leading students to awakening in
masses, by far, in history.
Eckhart Tolle - Awakened to I AM at 29 spontaneously through
Self-Enquiry. His awakening was triggered by Self-Enquiry, which is
recommended in AtR as a direct path to self-realization. Sat as a
recluse in deep meditation and bliss in a park for two years with no
home and family after initial awakening, and during this time his
initial awakening continued to deepen into greater depths and samadhi
on the I AM. In his books he teaches various methods and meditations,
i.e. not an exponent of the "no practice" doctrine. He calls his
meditation methods "portals".
Note that the I AM realization is not the same as the realization
of anatta/emptiness that the Buddha had, but it is a genuine
realization of luminous essence of Presence-Awareness.
Based on my encounters with the Eckhart Tolle's online community
more than a decade ago, it would seem that many of Eckhart's 'students'
have attained to I AM realization.
Ramana Maharshi - Awakened to I AM at 16 spontaneously through
Self-Enquiry. A strong advocate for the practice of self-enquiry.
Again, not a 'no practice' exponent. Had many self-appointed
successors, presumably many are realized themselves, and many who can
attest to the efficacy of his teachings and method of practice. Ramana
Maharshi frequently remained motionless in lengthy durations of
meditative absorption/samadhi, sometimes not leaving his seat for hours
and days or more in caves, especially during the first decades after
his initial awakening.
Ch'an Master Hsu Yun - Awakened after 30+ years of practice.
Awakened to I AM and One Mind through self-enquiry and hearing a sound
of cup shattering. A strong exponent of self-enquiry. Not a 'no
practice' exponent. As a matter of fact, Ch'an Master Hsu Yun's is
renowned for entering such deep meditative samadhi for very long
duration of times that he has become a legendary saintly character in
China, like the equivalent of Ramana Maharshi but in China (also
curiously, both lived in the same period). Had many, many successors
who have awakened to the similar realizations as him.1
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David Carse - not aligned to any lineage, his awakening occurred
while taking Ayahuasca (the famous shamanic psychedelic brew containing
Dimethyltryptamine/DMT) in the Amazonian rainforests, his description
of awakening is of I AM + impersonality + One Mind. His is a rare and
special case of a seemingly stable spiritual awakening produced
primarily by the ingestion of a psychedelic drug, as most people who
take psychedelics merely have temporary experiences or glimpses, and
later had more lasting breakthroughs and realization through
self-enquiry, contemplation and meditations. And it is for this reason -
that psychedelic drugs have not proven itself to consistently produce
deep and lasting awakening, along with its risks, that I have not made
any recommendations for experimenting with these substances, although I
have personally tried them myself.
It should however be understood that psychedelic drugs can indeed
spontaneously lead to meditative and contemplative states (albeit
temporarily) where glimpses of the luminous presence of consciousness
begins to shine forward directly and intimately, where the filters of
egoic separation breaks down and dissolves. Where consistent meditation
practice allows for such states of consciousness and insights to
emerge naturally and consistently albeit in a more gradual manner,
psychedelics are like being strapped to a rocket ship that heads for
the sky only to fall back to earth after a while.
However, I am not aware of David Carse's teachings resulting in
another person attaining the same state of awakening as David.
John Wheeler - had an active interest and practice in spirituality,
but his breakthrough happened when he was directly pointed out his
luminous essence of Presence-Awareness by the Neo-Advaita guru Sailor
Bob Adamson. This does not negate the importance of the earlier part of
his path prior to encountering Sailor Bob Adamson, but it does
demonstrate that having good pointers by a realized teacher/friend can
be very helpful at leading to a breakthrough.
His style of teaching seems to be directly pointing out the essence
of one's awareness to be doubtless presence-awareness, and seeing the
personal self to be false (leading to impersonality). Although he does
not call this a formal kind of practice, he actively writes pointers to
questioners and asks them to look at the fundamental points in one's
own nature, to examine one's own nature so that the very fact of one's
existence becomes irrefutably established/seen/realized beyond doubt,
i.e. self-realization. This is in fact not different from self-enquiry
and contemplation. From his books it would appear that a number of his
students have gained certainty of Being, i.e. I AM realization.
The last I read about him, he seems to have stopped teaching and
went to India to learn from another guru and perhaps go into retreat
for practice. Perhaps he has realized that there are deeper depths to
explore in spirituality than what he has realized thus far.
For those who are into self-enquiry, I often recommend the trio of
Ramana Maharshi, Eckhart Tolle and John Wheeler's teachings into the
mix.1
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Again, not a 'no practice' advocate, and based on his website there
is now an estimated 10 people who have attained actual freedom from
his approach.
Zen Master Dogen - the founder of Japanese Soto Zen sect - well
known for advocating Zazen, or just sitting. An ardent practitioner of
the "just sitting" practice of seated meditation, Dogen has a zeal to
find out the truth from an early age. He wondered, "As I study both the
exoteric and the esoteric schools of Buddhism, they maintain that
human beings are endowed with Dharma-nature by birth. If this is the
case, why did the Buddhas of all ages — undoubtedly in possession of
enlightenment — find it necessary to seek enlightenment and engage in
spiritual practice?"
At that time his understanding of Buddha-Nature is I AM. It assumes
Buddha Nature is a dualistic and inherently existing Self that is
separate from time and practice.
"By his fifteenth year one burning question became the core around
which his spiritual strivings revolved: "If, as the sutras say, our
Essential-nature is Bodhi (perfection), why did all Buddhas have to
strive for enlightenment and perfection?" His dissatisfaction with the
answers he received at Mount Hiei led him eventually to Eisai-zenji,
who had brought the teachings of the Rinzai sect of Zen Buddhism from
China to Japan. Eisai's reply to Dogen's question was: "No Buddha is
conscious of its existence [that is, of this Essential-nature], while
cats and oxen [that is the grossly deluded] are aware of it." In other
words, Buddhas, precisely because they are Buddhas, no longer think of
having or not having a Perfect-nature; only the deluded think in such
terms. At these words Dogen had an inner realization which dissolved
his deep-seated doubt."
Later, under Rujing, Dōgen realized liberation of body and mind
upon hearing the master say, "Cast off body and mind" (身心脱落 shēn xīn
tuō luò). This phrase would continue to have great importance to Dōgen
throughout his life, and can be found scattered throughout his
writings, as—for example—in a famous section of his "Genjōkōan" (現成公案):
"To study the Way is to study the Self. To study the Self is to forget
the self. To forget the self is to be enlightened by all things of the
universe. To be enlightened by all things of the universe is to cast
off the body and mind of the self as well as those of others. Even the
traces of enlightenment are wiped out, and life with traceless
enlightenment goes on forever and ever."
Dogen was very clear about anatta and total exertion. As to his original question, he later had this to say:
"Accordingly, in the practice-enlightenment of the buddha way,
meeting one thing is mastering it--doing one practice is practicing
completely. Here is the place; here the way unfolds. The boundary of
realization is not distinct, for the realization comes forth
simultaneously with the mastery of buddha-dharma.
Do not suppose that what you realize becomes your knowledge and is
grasped by your consciousness. Although actualized immediately, the
inconceivable may not be apparent. Its appearance is beyond your
knowledge. Zen master Baoche of Mt. Mayu was fanning himself. A monk
approached and said, "Master, the nature of wind is permanent and there
is no place it does not reach. When, then, do you fan yourself?"
"Although you understand that the nature of the wind is permanent,"
Baoche replied, "you do not understand the meaning of its reaching
everywhere."
"What is the meaning of its reaching everywhere?" asked the monk
again. The master just kept fanning himself. The monk bowed deeply.
The actualization of the buddha-dharma, the vital path of its
correct transmission, is like this. If you say that you do not need to
fan yourself because the nature of wind is permanent and you can have
wind without fanning, you will understand neither permanence nor the
nature of wind. The nature of wind is permanent; because of that, the
wind of the buddha's house brings forth the gold of the earth and makes
fragrant the cream of the long river." - http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/.../genjo-koan...
Dogen has created a lineage full of deeply enlightened Zen masters
and teachers and practitioners. I love his lineage, having practiced in
a Soto Zen dharma center when I was studying in Australia many years
ago. They have great emphasis on meditation - sitting and walking. 1.5
hours of each meeting is dedicated to meditation, the remaining 0.5
hours consist of the dharma teacher discussing about the dharma - which
is very resonating as it is describing anatta and total exertion.
There is no neglecting of practice in this lineage, which is one of the
reasons why I like this lineage and enjoy practicing there.
Furthermore, actualization as described by Dogen goes far beyond just
sitting on the cushion, it is actualizing in everyday life and
activities. This too is described by Dogen and the Zen masters.
Now my practice is completely effortless and actualized in every
moment of activity, from sitting to sleeping to moving about in one's
daily life. It is full engagement, total exertion of the three times
and ten directions, the entire universe involved every moment of
activity with nothing in the universe being concealed.

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Now lets look at the few people who had so called spontaneous
awakenings but did not teach any particular method of practice -
Tony Parsons. Had a spontaneous PCE in a park, which seems to be
followed by an I AM realization where he spent some time in before even
the Witness finally collapsed into nonduality (based on 'As It Is').
He seems to have gone through a further refinement of insight in recent
years where even the notion of 'awareness' seems to have dissolved for
him.
He does not advocate for practice or meditation, and his approach
seems to be purely descriptive, a description of what non-duality,
no-self, and so on is. He also points out the delusiveness of self.
However, given that the does not advocate for a pragmatic and
methodical way of approaching truth, it is quite doubtful if his
students/listeners can actually "get the message", and if so, how
frequently.
Tony Parsons thought that practice is basically useless, but he
does not see that the crucial element that led to his awakening was his
deep earnestness in seeking truth, that drove him to various
meditations and therapies before he later had a spontaneous awakening
on his own. It is this earnestness to discover truth, to contemplate,
that is the key factor in meditative contemplation that made him ready
to 'receive' and awaken to the truth.
U.G. Krishnamurti - underwent various mystical experiences, the
collapse of divisiveness into nondual peak experiences, before finally
the realization of no-self in an excruciating experience he calls the
calamity, which I call energy imbalance. It is clear that he has a deep
yearning to find the truth and this deep yearning for truth and
contemplative mind was the trigger for his state of realization.
However he was unable to discern the conditions that led to his
realizations, and taught to his students that he was merely a freak of
nature and practices are useless. Understandably, none of his
"students" could understand him or realize what he realized, and so his
awakening had not been of much benefit to people around him.
----
Now, this may piss off some readers but I have to say that despite
whatever awakenings many have claimed and I have listed above, other
than Buddha and the arahants, most people still have way more to go.
And the only way is to practice ardently in both formal sessions
(meditation/yoga/etc) and in daily life.
How to know whether you are still not at the end of the road -
Have you completely removed the ten fetters and become an arahant?
Buddha: “There are these ten fetters. Which ten? Five lower fetters
& five higher fetters. And which are the five lower fetters?
Self-identification views, uncertainty, grasping at habits &
practices, sensual desire, & ill will. These are the five lower
fetters. And which are the five higher fetters? Passion for form,
passion for what is formless, conceit, restlessness, & ignorance.
These are the five higher fetters. And these are the ten fetters.”
Or alternatively: in the Mahayana path, have you attained
Buddhahood and completely released the two obscurations thereby
attaining omniscience?
Obscurations (Tib. sgrib pa, Skt. avarana): factors which veil one's Buddha-nature. [MR]
Obscuration (sgrib pa). The two veils of disturbing emotions and dualistic knowledge that cover one's buddha nature. [RY]
Obscurations (sgrib pa). The veils that covers one's direct
perception of the nature of mind. In the general Buddhist teachings
several types are mentions: the obscuration of karma preventing one
from entering the path of enlightenment, the obscuration of disturbing
emotions preventing progress along the path, the obscuration of
habitual tendencies preventing the vanishing of confusion, and the
final obscuration of dualistic knowledge preventing the full attainment
of buddhahood. [RY]
-----
I am not personally convinced that anyone modern has attained
'arahantship' or 'Buddhahood', even if they have realized anatta.
Unfortunately, half-past-six practitioners are plentiful these
days, when 99% of so called enlightened people are stuck at I AM and
think they are Buddhas.
If even Buddhas and arahants practice, then so much more must
non-Buddhas and non-arahants practice for their own sake and the
benefit of others.
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Well the realization and shift in consciousness can be dangerous if
there no one to guide, it has nothing to do with "Buddhist
meditation". Any meditations are equally dangerous because they can
cause a shift of consciousness. Even a secular meditation has equal
dangers if it can trigger shifts in consciousness. Same as with
psychedelic drugs.
One can be stuck like U.G. Krishnamurti with a tortorous experience
of "The Calamity" for 3 years, AF Richard's "mental agony" and "brain
excitation" for 2 years, and they are not Buddhists nor were they
practicing Buddhist meditations.
John Tan (Thusness) got stuck in a very intense period of suffering
for years due to energy imbalance during his I AM phase, before he
became Buddhist. He was not practicing Buddhist meditation then. It was
only overcome after anatta.
Personally, my practices had never led to any danger or
destabilizing experience. My recent 7-days energy imbalance experience
is by far the only unpleasant experience I've ever had, and was easily
overcome through following John Tan's guidances and advise.
I don't think Buddhist meditations are inherently unsafe, but
practicing without guidance + navigating the territories without
sufficient wisdom can be unsafe, as one can practice wrongly and cause
various unpleasant psycho-physical side-effects.
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Gangaji is still stuck at I AM and I believe she teaches self
enquiry as the method of practice. Too many people stop short of full
enlightenment and get satisfied with what I consider a rather
preliminary stage of realization.
Adyashanti practiced deep meditation and self enquiry under a Zen
master, triggering his first breakthrough to I AM/Eternal Witness, but
even then he had to undergo further realizations into non-dual and
anatta in recent years. He wrote that in his more recent books and
writings, I'm surprised you didn't realise he underwent a journey and
phases of insights quite similar to mine.
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- Òskar K. LinaresAs far as I know if you get a sudden SHIFT it's always IAM. They can say they're enlightened, maybe I thought the same ten years ago, but it's just IAM, it's the gate that opens. But there's a lot of path to do. The big problem is that if you think you're at the end, then you're lost and maybe you'll go astray.1
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Soh Wei Yu
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Indeed
"Though
buddha nature is plainness and most direct, these are still the steps.
If one does not know the process and said ‘yes this is it’… then it is
extremely misleading. For 99 percent [of ‘realized’/’enlightened’
persons] what one is talking about is "I AMness", and has not gone
beyond permanence, still thinking [of] permanence, formless… ...all and
almost all will think of it along the line of "I AMness", all are like
the grandchildren of "AMness", and that is the root cause of duality.” -
John Tan, 2007
Òskar K. Linares
Soh Wei Yu
I Agree. And that's also the cause of so much informational chaos
today, because some people in IAM is claiming buddhahood or something
close and their teachins are misleading. They claim buddhahood but their
teachings are full of disguised atman.