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Soh Wei YuAdmin
See Jamgon Mipham’s explanations:
"PATHS TO ENLIGHTENMENT
What follows is a short explanation of the way Mipam presents the structure of the Buddhist path to awakening. According to him, we can only go so far in the Lesser Vehicle, realizing the lack of a personal self based on its path, but without the Great Vehicle, we will not come to fully realize the lack of self (that is, emptiness) with respect to all phenomena. In other words, those in the Lesser Vehicle realize only part of emptiness (the lack of a personal self) but do not realize the entire scope of emptiness. They hang on to an ultimate foundation of reality (the fundamental elements of reality, or dharmas), whereas there is actually no such foundation. Therefore, according to Mipam, one cannot become a buddha based solely on the Lesser Vehicle path; becoming a buddha is the result of the Great Vehicle. Nevertheless, realizing the lack of a personal self is enough to free us from samsara, because in doing so, we relinquish the obscurations of the afflictive emotions. The afflictive emotions can be included within the “three poisons” of attachment, aversion, and delusion.
These afflictive obscurations function to prevent liberation, and they are tied in with the apprehension of a personal self. Based on the notion of such a self, we become attached (to me and mine) and averse (to what is other). This notion of self keeps the wheel of samsara rolling, because it perpetuates the distorted framework through which we selfishly act out attachment and aversion, thus sowing the seeds of suffering. Afflictive obscurations have two aspects: a gross, imputed aspect and a more subtle, innate aspect. According to Mipam, the imputed aspects are relinquished on the first “ground” (Tib. sa, Skt. bhūmi) when you directly perceive the suchness of reality. This experiential realization is called “the path of seeing.”
The imputed aspects of the afflictive obscurations are learned and not inborn like the innate aspects. Imputed aspects involve distortions that are explicitly conceptual, as opposed to the perceptual distortions that comprise the innate aspects. The difference between the imputed and innate aspects can be understood as something like the difference between software and hardware: the innate aspects are embedded more deeply in one’s mind-stream and are thus more difficult to eliminate. Imputed ego-clinging refers to imputing qualities to the self that are not there—namely, apprehending the self as a singular, permanent, and independent entity. This is overcome on the first bodhisattva ground in a direct, nonconceptual experience of reality that is the culminating insight of analysis. Nevertheless, the more subtle, innate aspect of ego-clinging hangs on.
The innate ego-clinging, as the bare sense of self that is imputed on the basis of the five aggregates, is more difficult to remove. Rather than construing qualities to the self such as singularity or permanence, it is a more subtle feeling of simply “I am” when, for instance, we wake up in the morning. This innate sense of self is a deeply rooted, instinctual habit. It thus involves more than just imputed identity; it is a deeper experiential orientation of distorted subjectivity. Although analysis into the nature of the self paves the way for it to be overcome, it cannot fall away by analysis alone. Rather, it has to be relinquished through cultivating the path of meditation. According to Mipam, there are no innate aspects of the afflictive obscurations left on the eighth ground. However, the afflictive emotions are only one of two types of obscurations, the other being cognitive obscurations.
Cognitive obscurations are nothing less than conceptuality: the threefold conceptualization of agent, object, and action. Conceptuality is tied in to apprehending a self of phenomena, which includes mistaking phenomena as real, objectifying phenomena, and simply perceiving dualistically. Such conceptualization serves to obstruct omniscience. Based on the Great Vehicle, these cognitive obscurations can be completely relinquished; thereby, the result of the Great Vehicle path culminates in not merely escaping samsara, as in the Lesser Vehicle, but in becoming an omniscient buddha. According to Mipam, up to the seventh ground, the realization (of the twofold selflessness) and abandonment (of the twofold obscurations) are the same in the Great and Lesser Vehicles.
As with the Great Vehicle, he maintains that accomplishing the path of the Lesser Vehicle entails the realization of the selflessness of phenomena, to see that phenomena are empty. Those who accomplish the Lesser Vehicle path also realize the selflessness of phenomena, because their realization of emptiness with respect to a person is one instance of realizing the emptiness of phenomena. The final realization of the Lesser Vehicle path, however, is incomplete. Mipam compares it to taking a small gulp of the water of the ocean: we can say that those who realize emptiness in the Lesser Vehicle have drunk the water of the ocean, just not all of it.150 The final realization of the bodhisattva’s path in the Great Vehicle, however, is the full realization of emptiness, like drinking the entire ocean.
- Jamgon Mipam: His Life and Teachings"
Labels: Nirvana |

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Anna Mukherjee
Soh Wei Yu Sorry , I've been peeking on this conversation. Could you please clarify something that seems contrary for me?
In the below quote
Thusness/John Tan seems to be reffering to post anatta practice:
"After this insight, one must also be clear of the way of anatta and the path of practice. (...)
It does not mean because there is no-self, there is nothing to practice; rather it is because there is no self, there is only ignorance and the chain of afflicted activities. Practice therefore is about overcoming ignorance and these chain of afflictive activities. There is no agent but there is attention. Therefore practice is about wisdom, vipassana, mindfulness and concentration. If there is no mastery over these practices, there is no liberation. (...)
However based on Jamgon Mipham’s explanations, it seems that it is enough to realise anatta to cut off all ignorance and the chain of afflicted activities?
"PATHS TO ENLIGHTENMENT
Nevertheless, realizing the lack of a personal self is enough to free us from samsara, because in doing so, we relinquish the obscurations of the afflictive emotions. The afflictive emotions can be included within the “three poisons” of attachment, aversion, and delusion.
John Tan's quote makes much more sense to me, but perhaps I'm missing something from Mipham’s explanation 🤔

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Soh Wei YuAdmin
Anna Mukherjee You misunderstood. Realizing anatta is only stream entry ( https://www.reddit.com/r/streamentry/comments/igored/insight_buddhism_a_reconsideration_of_the_meaning/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf%20 ) or 1st bhumi (Mahayana stream entry) instead. For 1st bhumi it is the realization of twofold emptiness.
John Tan wrote the 7 stages back in 2006 (updated in 2009). He realised both anatta and twofold emptiness for decades, two decades. But he made tremendous progress since, and even last year had further breakthroughs which he attributed to his 3-4 hours of meditation per day (or more). This is consistent with what Jamgon Mipham (and all other Buddhist masters starting from Buddha) have said, the deeper obscurations/afflictions require the path of meditation to overcome.
r/streamentry on Reddit: [insight] [buddhism] A reconsideration of the meaning of "Stream-Entry" considering the data points of both pragmatic Dharma and traditional Buddhism
REDDIT.COM
r/streamentry on Reddit: [insight] [buddhism] A reconsideration of the meaning of "Stream-Entry" considering the data points of both pragmatic Dharma and traditional Buddhism
r/streamentry on Reddit: [insight] [buddhism] A reconsideration of the meaning of "Stream-Entry" considering the data points of both pragmatic Dharma and traditional Buddhism

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Soh Wei YuAdmin
1st bhumi (emptiness realization) is not the end. There are 10, or 13, or 16 bhumis (depending on which tradition and scheme) to Buddhahood. Many stages.

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Soh Wei YuAdmin
" Nevertheless, realizing the lack of a personal self is enough to free us from samsara, because in doing so, we relinquish the obscurations of the afflictive emotions. The afflictive emotions can be included within the “three poisons” of attachment, aversion, and delusion." -- do read carefully, although the realization of emptiness (twofold emptiness: emptiness of self/Self and emptiness of all phenomena) is present in 1st bhumi, the emptiness of a self is only fully actualized totally to obliterate all afflictions at the 8th bhumi. This is explained in Jamgon Mipham's text above but perhaps not elucidated very clearly.
At this point of the 8th bhumi you are also similar to a sravaka arahat in terms of overcoming all afflictions and cutting off cyclic rebirth (there may be some other differences between them but I digress). But a Bodhisattva proceeds on to put an end to the second obscuration through the full actualization of the emptiness of all phenomena (as opposed to merely emptiness of personal self), the cognitive/knowledge obscurations that blocks the omniscience of Buddhahood. This is accomplished at the point of Buddhahood.
https://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Two_obscurations
Two obscurations - Rigpa Wiki
RIGPAWIKI.ORG
Two obscurations - Rigpa Wiki
Two obscurations - Rigpa Wiki

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Soh Wei YuAdmin
Anna Mukherjee 1st bhumi realization is this, according to Mipham:
"Then, at the time of the supreme quality on the path of joining, one realizes that since the perceived does not exist, neither does the perceiver. Right after this, the truth of suchness, which is free from dualistic fixation, is directly realized. This is said to be the attainment of the first ground."
Jamgom Mipham Rinpoche

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Soh Wei YuAdmin
At which point, you put an end to the first three fetters (similar to Sravaka stream enterer), view of a self, skeptical doubts, attachment to rites and rituals. And you cut off the possibility of rebirth in the lower realms and can henceforth only be reborn in human or deva realms.
Mipham: "The Bodhisattvas on this ground have a direct realization of the nonexistence of the self. This enables them to abandon the three fetters: the view of the transitory composite, the belief in the superiority of their ethical discipline, and doubt—together with all the obscurations eliminated on the path of seeing..... ....Birth in the lower realms is no longer possible It is said that when Bodhisattvas reach the first ground, all paths whereby they might fall into the lower realms are closed."
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