Patryk Czarnecki






Why many new age spiritual teachers fixates on „creating your own reality”?

Many say that „you are God/energy/creator/whatever, creating your own reality.”

It may sound appealing of course.  It also often comes with full „law of attraction” stuff. What does AtR have to say about that ?


Nafis Rahman


Prior discussion thread on law of attraction/manifestation:

You can ask further questions once you go through it.


Soh Wei Yu



(11:07 PM) John: for now, i want to put it more clear to longchen later...

(11:07 PM) AEN: icic..

(11:07 PM) John: the part of stage 5 must be led forward by DO otherwise one will sink back to a source

(11:08 PM) John: very often, this is the case

(11:08 PM) AEN: icic..

(11:09 PM) John: so don't underestimate the simple sentence of "manifestation is the source"

(11:09 PM) AEN: ok

(11:09 PM) John: it is the key to non-duality then lead to DO.

(11:09 PM) AEN: icic..

(11:09 PM) John: it must be DO that lead one out of the source.

(11:09 PM) AEN: oic..

(11:10 PM) John: then all broken pieces will slowly fall into place

(11:10 PM) John: otherwise we will have all those funny theories like reality is lila

(11:10 PM) John: a game plot of God.

(11:10 PM) AEN: oic

(11:10 PM) John: 🙂

(11:11 PM) John: that is because causes and conditions is not understood

(11:11 PM) AEN: icic..

(11:11 PM) John: and how awareness becomes causes and conditions

(11:11 PM) AEN: oic

(11:12 PM) John: when luminosity-emptiness is experienced in its total state, then it is dharmakaya

(11:12 PM) AEN: icic..

(11:12 PM) John: by experiencing the luminosity aspect itself is not enough

(11:13 PM) AEN: oic

(11:13 PM) John: it is at best not to tok about transcendental body

(11:13 PM) AEN: lol ok

(11:14 PM) John: and should not confuse ppl unnecessarily

(11:14 PM) AEN: icic..

(11:15 PM) John: actually my intention of toking about stage 5, manifestation is the source is only to longchen initially

(11:16 PM) John: and later JonLS.

(11:16 PM) AEN: oic..

(11:16 PM) John: not to others as it will only confuse them


Soh Wei Yu



(10:28 PM) Thusness: now what is the most unique understanding u have all these years?

(10:30 PM) AEN: erm i dunno leh lol

(10:30 PM) AEN: i guess after i experience then it will become 'unique' 😛

(10:30 PM) Thusness: lol

(10:30 PM) Thusness: then what sort of knowledge u gathered so far?

(10:31 PM) AEN: non duality, impermanence, things like tat? naturalness?

(10:31 PM) Thusness: what is non-duality?

(10:31 PM) AEN: no self, no subject object division? no background?

(10:31 PM) Thusness: yes. 🙂

(10:32 PM) Thusness: non-duality is buddhism no-self

(10:32 PM) AEN: icic

(10:32 PM) Thusness: no-self is a better word to me...ehehehe

(10:32 PM) AEN: oic haha

(10:32 PM) Thusness: there is really no-self

(10:33 PM) AEN: icic..

(10:33 PM) Thusness: and mindfulness purpose is to allow us to experience that

(10:33 PM) AEN: oic

(10:33 PM) Thusness: why so?

(10:33 PM) Thusness: because there is no symbols

(10:33 PM) Thusness: because there is no content

(10:33 PM) Thusness: it is raw and bare attention.

(10:33 PM) AEN: icic..

(10:33 PM) Thusness: and 'self' is an image

(10:33 PM) AEN: oic

(10:33 PM) Thusness: it is about content

(10:34 PM) Thusness: therefore when one is raw and imageless, yet there is knowing

(10:34 PM) Thusness: when this experience is sustained, there is absolutely no sense of self at all.

(10:34 PM) AEN: icic..

(10:34 PM) Thusness: this is the first level

(10:34 PM) AEN: oic

(10:35 PM) Thusness: but there is still no experience of non-duality level of no-self

(10:35 PM) Thusness: until the manifestation alone is understood as really the source itself.

(10:35 PM) Thusness: 🙂

(10:35 PM) AEN: icic

(10:36 PM) Thusness: then not only is mirror bright is fully understood, the breaking of the mirror is also understood.

(10:36 PM) AEN: oic..

(10:36 PM) Thusness: so this is only part of what i have always said.

(10:36 PM) Thusness: i always say there are 3 stages

(10:37 PM) Thusness: no-self, emptiness, spontaneous arising

(10:37 PM) Thusness: no-self is non-duality

(10:37 PM) AEN: icic

(10:37 PM) Thusness: then emptiness

(10:37 PM) Thusness: u notice from beginning till now, i have always said that our nature is no where to be found.

(10:37 PM) AEN: oic..

(10:38 PM) Thusness: no who

(10:38 PM) Thusness: and no when.

(10:38 PM) Thusness: nothing like that

(10:38 PM) AEN: icic

(10:38 PM) Thusness: when i said emptiness, it is always so and when condition arise, manifestation is.

(10:38 PM) Thusness: this is the emptiness i am toking about.

(10:38 PM) AEN: oic

(10:38 PM) Thusness: nothing about complete perfect...

(10:39 PM) Thusness: i don't like to use these terms.

(10:39 PM) Thusness: have u seen me using such terms?

(10:39 PM) AEN: no

(10:40 PM) Thusness: instead i always say it is not that great

(10:40 PM) Thusness: 🙂

(10:40 PM) AEN: but complete perfect is just used to explained there is no need to attain anything right

(10:40 PM) AEN: icic

(10:40 PM) Thusness: precisely

(10:40 PM) Thusness: there is no attainment. 🙂

(10:40 PM) AEN: icic

(10:41 PM) Thusness: because we are free from beginning and there is no origination and there is no-self

(10:41 PM) Thusness: it is more of suffering when we 'seek'

(10:41 PM) AEN: oic

(10:41 PM) Thusness: there is nothing inside nor outside

(10:41 PM) Thusness: nothing about complete or incomplete

(10:42 PM) Thusness: can we say the fire is in the matchstick?

(10:42 PM) Thusness: or the 'tree' is in a seed?

(10:42 PM) Thusness: this is viewing 'entity'

(10:42 PM) Thusness: and not understanding the importance of conditions

(10:42 PM) AEN: icic..

(10:45 PM) Thusness: emptiness is supposed to break this view.


Soh Wei Yu


Online: What are the ​​7 laws of attraction?

Similar things are attracted to each other. This law explains that like attract likes. ...

Focus on the present. ...

Make room for the positive things in life. ...

Find balance. ...

Remain unwavering in our desires. ...

Create harmony around us. ...

What goes around comes around.


Soh Wei Yu


<-- whatever positive effects these had, it has nothing to do with because "I am God", but because these conditions or positive mindset makes it easier to achieve our goals. That's all really. There is just causes and conditions. Nothing is decided by an agent, either internal or external.


Soh Wei Yu


Someone told me about how having the wrong view that "I" can decide or attract anything, like literally as if you are God, ruined his life. Such views are dangerous, harmful, very naive, and cannot be taken literally. Otherwise it is no different from believing in miracle cures and believing snake oil can treat cancer. There may be some values to 7 laws of attraction, but without working with causes and conditions nothing can manifest. Manifestation always depend on causes and conditions.


Soh Wei Yu


“To study Buddhism, it is first necessary to clarify cause and effect. If one ignores cause and effect one will develop false views and sever the roots of goodness. The principle of cause and effect is very clear and there is no “I” in it: those who create evil will fall and those who practice good will rise, without a hairsbreadth of disparity between the two. If cause and effect had perished and ceased to be, then the buddhas would not have appeared in the world, the founding teacher would not have come from the West, and sentient beings would never have met the Buddha and heard the Dharma. People like Confucius or Lao-tse do not propound the principle of cause and effect. Only the buddhas and Zen ancestors have made this clear.” – A quote of Zen Master Dogen in Yamada, Kōun. Zen: The Authentic Gate (p. 149). Wisdom Publications. Kindle Edition.”

“To summarize, the principle of cause and effect is quite clear, and it is totally impersonal: those who fabricate evil will fall into a lower state, whereas those who practice good will rise to a higher state, and without the slightest disparity. If cause and effect had become null and void, Buddhas would never have appeared in the world and our Ancestral Master would not have come from the West. In short, it would be impossible for human beings to encounter a Buddha and hear the Dharma. The fundamental principle of cause and effect was not clear to Confucius or Lao-tzu. It has only been clarified and Transmitted by Buddha after Buddha and by Ancestor after Ancestor. Because the good fortune of those who are seeking to learn in these degenerate days of the Dharma is scant, they do not encounter a genuine Master or hear the authentic Dharma, and so they are not clear about cause and effect. If you deny causality as a result of this error, you will experience excessive misfortune, since you would be as ignorant as an ox or a horse. Even if you have not committed any evil act other than denying cause and effect, the poison of this view will immediately be terrible. Therefore, if you who are exploring the Matter through your training with a Master have put your heart that seeks awakening as the first and foremost matter, and therefore wish to repay the vast benevolence of the Buddhas and the Ancestors, you should swiftly clarify what causality really is.” - Zen Master Dogen,


Soh Wei Yu



(11:44 AM) John: there is another danger about just having the experience of our luminosity and anatta (Soh: I think more like substantial nonduality than anatta proper) without placing emphasis on our emptiness nature.

(11:44 AM) John: life becomes just a manifestation of the divine

(11:44 AM) John: and the divine becomes like damn great...

(11:44 AM) AEN: oic..

(11:44 AM) John: actually the divine cannot do

(11:44 AM) John: that is why there is never an 'I'. 😛

(11:45 AM) AEN: icic..

(11:45 AM) John: and action is karma.

(11:45 AM) AEN: oic

(11:45 AM) John: and unwholesome action results in suffering

(11:45 AM) John: this must be known

(11:45 AM) AEN: icic..

(11:46 AM) John: i think this will gradually evolve and unfold.

(11:46 AM) AEN: oic

(11:46 AM) AEN: u mean karma?

(11:47 AM) John: yeah....but experiencing it


Soh Wei Yu


2006: read until the last few paras:

(8:50 PM) John: u know what is the problem of the link now?

(8:50 PM) AEN: wat is it

(8:51 PM) John: what is lacking...

(8:51 PM) John: think...u should know

(8:53 PM) John: what is the diff between what is posted and those zen masters' poems

(8:53 PM) AEN: true experience, theoretical?

(8:53 PM) John: yes but what is the true experience like?

(8:54 PM) AEN: experiencing the presence in everything without self

(8:54 PM) John: yes! fusing into everything....

(8:55 PM) John: the tennis court....the drum beats of the foot step

(8:55 PM) AEN: oic

(8:55 PM) John: that clarity breaks the first level into the 2nd

(8:55 PM) AEN: icic how come

(8:55 PM) John: the luminosity of the mirror bright

(8:55 PM) AEN: u mean by experiencing that one will immediately realise Emptiness?

(8:56 PM) John: wait...what is the differences between that and emptiness?

(8:56 PM) John: sorry i mean "AMness"

(8:57 PM) John: the clarity of zen masters enlightenment and "AMness"

(8:57 PM) AEN: amness is still attached to a state of purity? not completely fuse into everything?

(8:58 PM) John: yes...has the zen master not demonstrated in their lives about the luminous clarity in all things that came into contact?

(8:59 PM) John: is there a self?

(8:59 PM) John: there is only the everything

(8:59 PM) John: where is the 'Self'?

(8:59 PM) AEN: oic..

(8:59 PM) AEN: but hmm

(9:00 PM) AEN: i tot u also said b4, when one experiences the 'i am' when 6 senses are widely open, one will experience it as 'i am all'. isnt that also sort of fusing into everything?

(9:00 PM) John: yes....and zen masters might have the danger of that too....

(9:01 PM) AEN: oic

(9:01 PM) John: so luminosity is not nature

(9:01 PM) John: what is it?

(9:01 PM) AEN: emptiness?

(9:01 PM) John: yes

(9:01 PM) AEN: icic

(9:01 PM) John: it is this, now that, always changing and ungraspable

(9:02 PM) AEN: icic

(9:02 PM) John: the ungraspable is anatta manifestation.

(9:02 PM) John: it is seen in all

(9:02 PM) John: in everything

(9:02 PM) AEN: oic

(9:02 PM) John: if u return and want to rest in the 'Self', instead of gaining, u lost everything

(9:02 PM) AEN: icic

(9:03 PM) John: the nature is anatta, there is no self

(9:03 PM) John: understand?

(9:03 PM) AEN: ya

(9:04 PM) John: now when one understand this, he lays the foundation of stabilizing this in "everything" experience

(9:04 PM) John: because he is not returning to the "AMness"

(9:04 PM) AEN: oic

(9:04 PM) John: he is not confused anymore

(9:04 PM) AEN: icic

(9:05 PM) John: he finds it in all things without returning...though ungraspable, it is always seized at the moment.

(9:05 PM) AEN: oic

(9:05 PM) John: and how it arise? this is, that is

(9:05 PM) John: emptiness

(9:05 PM) AEN: icic

(9:06 PM) John: so i said extend it to the six senses, presence without self

(9:06 PM) John: sound without hearer

(9:06 PM) John: scenery without seer

(9:06 PM) AEN: icic..

(9:06 PM) John: everything to experience and understand anatta

(9:07 PM) AEN: icic

(9:07 PM) John: so that "AMness" presence is experienced in all moment without the need to fall back.

(9:07 PM) AEN: oic

(9:07 PM) John: how could there be movement then?

(9:08 PM) John: it is just arising and ceasing

(9:08 PM) John: because there is no moment that is not so.

(9:08 PM) AEN: icic

(9:08 PM) AEN: ya

(9:08 PM) AEN: that is not wat?

(9:09 PM) John: that is not arising and ceasing according to conditions and causes

(9:09 PM) John: emptiness

(9:09 PM) John: this must be understood after clarity

(9:09 PM) AEN: oic

(9:10 PM) John: but there cannot be any movement, because there is no moment that is not like that

(9:10 PM) AEN: icic

(9:11 PM) John: then from this complete clarity, emptiness, no movement, yet everything wonderfully arises and ceases, one experiences the spontaneous arising, the self-so, the unconditioned

(9:11 PM) John: then there is true insight.

(9:11 PM) AEN: icic..

(9:11 PM) John: then karma will make sense

(9:12 PM) John: because of arising without self

(9:12 PM) John: arises with causes and condition without self

(9:12 PM) John: therefore be serious about the deeds

(9:12 PM) AEN: oic..

(9:13 PM) John: in "AMness", how does karma step in?

(9:13 PM) John: he will be confused because "AMness" in its ultimate sense is a controller.

(9:13 PM) AEN: icic

(9:14 PM) John: all these are words, it is the true experience that is most crucial.

(9:14 PM) AEN: but hmm... i read dzogchen texts also speaks of the 'Source'

(9:15 PM) AEN: but in that context it isnt meant to be 'controller' rite?

(9:15 PM) John: i do not like to use the word source...ehehhe

(9:15 PM) John: just like 'Self'...

(9:15 PM) John: 😛

(9:15 PM) AEN: oic but dzogchen talks about it quite often

(9:15 PM) AEN: lol

(9:15 PM) John: depends on who tok also. 😛


Soh Wei Yu


On Dzogchen 'source', it is not to be mistaken as substantialist doctrine of source and substratum like non-Buddhist views:

Dzogchen teacher Acarya Malcolm Smith said

And this so-called "god" aka basis [gzhi] is just a nonexistent mere appearance, that is, our primordial potentiality also has no real existence, which is stated over and over again in countless Dzogchen tantras.

For those whom emptiness is possible, everything is possible.

For those whom emptiness is not possible, nothing is possible.

-- Nāgārjuna.


Malcolm: This is completely inconsistent with the view of Dzogchen. The view of Dzogchen is that there is no basis or foundation at all. Also the doctrine of the two truths is absent in Dzogchen. Further, the view of Dzogchen is that everything, including buddhahood is completely equivalent to an illusion and therefore, uniform.


Clarifications on Dharmakaya and Basis by Loppön Namdrol/Malcolm


Clarifications on Dharmakaya and Basis by Loppön Namdrol/Malcolm

Clarifications on Dharmakaya and Basis by Loppön Namdrol/Malcolm

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Soh Wei Yu


On another opposite spectrum, another extreme that is also common in the Advaita/Neo-Advaita circles - pre-determinism

Quote from AtR Guide:

On the disease of non-doership, John Tan said:

“Nihilistic tendencies arise when the insight of anatta is skewed towards the no-doership aspect. The happening by itself must be correctly understood. It appears that things are accomplished by doing nothing but in actual case it is things get done due to ripening of action and conditions.

So the lack of self-nature does not imply nothing needs be done or nothing can be done. That is one extreme. At the other end of extreme is the self-nature of perfect control of what one wills, one gets. Both are seen to be false. Action + conditions leads to effect.”


Soh Wei Yu


Not understanding the middle way of dependent origination, one falls into such extremes.


"This humankind is attached to self-production

Or holds to production by another.

Those who have not understood this

Have not seen it as a dart.

But one who sees (this as it is),

Having drawn out the dart,

Does not think, 'I am the agent,'

Nor does she think, 'Another is the agent.'

This humankind is possessed by conceit,

Fettered by conceit, bound by conceit.

Speaking vindictively because of their views,

They do not go beyond samsara."

- Tatiyananatitthiya Sutta



 Joel Taylor
Lots of good things said here but I don't think anyone answered your question. 🙂 It's a very simple answer, it's a popular teaching because it gives people hope that they can be materially successful. As a result they can get their followers to give them lots of money. It's exactly the same motivation behind the prosperity gospel preachers in some types of Christianity.
The other side of it is that there is some measure of causality behind certain mindsets so there's an element of truth to it but it's a spiritual dead-end. If you're feeling an affinity for these kinds of teachings I recommend directing the intention towards awakening and the well being of others. That will lead to you towards something far more productive than wishing for a million dollars or a romantic relationship.


Joel Taylor
As a personal example, just this summer I was in one of those new age crystal stores and there was a little bowl drop a piece of paper with your wish on it. I wrote something like "I wish for awakening" and a week later I saw an interview with Angelo and it impacted me enough for me to buy and read his book. One night I went to sleep after reading his chapter on the stages of awakening. I woke up and went to my son's room to wake him up for school and as I spoke it was like there were two layers of reality, the one my mind was creating and the real one. The next couple of days were like I had no problems, life was just unfolding.
I won't call it a true awakening but I remember thinking at the time that if that's all I ever tasted in this life that it would be ok by me. At least I know this stuff is real and my focus on self-inquiry is a lot sharper now. Before I just tried random practices here and there, not really having a precise goal because I was under the impression that awakening wasn't for lazy people like me.


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