Din posted:
“There is that sphere, monks, where there is no earth, no water, no
fire, no air, no sphere of infinite space, no sphere of infinite
consciousness, no sphere of nothingness, no sphere of neither perception
nor non-perception, no this world, no world beyond, neither Moon nor
Sun. There, monks, I say there is surely no coming, no going, no
persisting, no passing away, no rebirth. It is quite without support,
unmoving, without an object,—just this is the end of suffering.”
~Nibbana Sutta - The first Discourse.
I replied:
Actually what the Buddha taught here is easily misunderstood as formless awareness but that is not what he meant.
Buddha:
“‘He has been stilled where the currents of supposition do not flow.
And when the currents of supposition do not flow, he is said to be a
sage at peace.’ Thus it was said. With reference to what was it said? ‘I
am’ is a supposition. ‘I am this’ is a supposition. ‘I shall be’ is a
supposition. ‘I shall not be’ … ‘I shall be possessed of form’ … ‘I
shall not be possessed of form’ … ‘I shall be percipient’ … ‘I shall not
be percipient’ … ‘I shall be neither percipient nor non-percipient’ is a
supposition. Supposition is a disease, supposition is a cancer,
supposition is an arrow. By going beyond all supposition, he is called a
sage at peace.
“And further, a sage at peace is not born, does not
age, does not die, is unagitated, and is free from longing. He has
nothing whereby he would be born. Not being born, will he age? Not
aging, will he die? Not dying, will he be agitated? Not being agitated,
for what will he long? It was in reference to this that it was said, ‘He
has been stilled where the currents of supposition do not flow. And
when the currents of supposition do not flow, he is said to be a sage at
peace.’ Now, monk, you should remember this, my brief analysis of the
six properties.”
...
““Then, Bāhiya, you should train
yourself thus: In reference to the seen, there will be only the seen. In
reference to the heard, only the heard. In reference to the sensed,
only the sensed. In reference to the cognized, only the cognized. That
is how you should train yourself. When for you there will be only the
seen in reference to the seen, only the heard in reference to the heard,
only the sensed in reference to the sensed, only the cognized in
reference to the cognized, then, Bāhiya, there is no you in connection
with that. When there is no you in connection with that, there is no you
there. When there is no you there, you are neither here nor yonder nor
between the two. This, just this, is the end of stress.”2
Through
hearing this brief explanation of the Dhamma from the Blessed One, the
mind of Bāhiya of the Bark-cloth right then and there was released from
effluents through lack of clinging/sustenance. Having exhorted Bāhiya of
the Bark-cloth with this brief explanation of the Dhamma, the Blessed
One left.
Now, not long after the Blessed One’s departure, Bāhiya
was attacked & killed by a cow with a young calf. Then the Blessed
One, having gone for alms in Sāvatthī, after the meal, returning from
his alms round with a large number of monks, saw that Bāhiya had died.
On seeing him, he said to the monks, “Take Bāhiya’s body, monks, and,
placing it on a litter and carrying it away, cremate it and build him a
memorial. Your companion in the holy life has died.”
Responding, “As
you say, lord,” to the Blessed One, the monks–placing Bāhiya’s body on a
litter, carrying it away, cremating it, and building him a
memorial–went to the Blessed One. On arrival, having bowed down to him,
sat to one side. As they were sitting there, they said to him, “Bāhiya’s
body has been cremated, lord, and his memorial has been built. What is
his destination? What is his future state?”
“Monks, Bāhiya of the
Bark-cloth was wise. He practiced the Dhamma in accordance with the
Dhamma and did not pester me with issues related to the Dhamma. Bāhiya
of the Bark-cloth, monks, is totally unbound.”
Then, on realizing the significance of that, the Blessed One on that occasion exclaimed:
Where water, earth,
fire, & wind
have no footing:
There the stars don’t shine,
the sun isn’t visible.
There the moon doesn’t appear.
There darkness is not found.
And when a sage,
a brahman through sagacity,
has realized [this] for himself,
then from form & formless,
from bliss & pain,
he is freed.”
.......
John tan/thusness, 2013:
To Jax:
The place where there is no earth, fire, wind, space, water…
is the place where the earth, fire, wind, space and water kills “You”
and fully shines as its own radiance, a complete taste of itself and
fully itself.
Lastly, it is interesting to get know something about Dzogchen however the jargons and tenets are far beyond me.
Just wrote due to a sudden spurt of interest, nothing intense.
Thanks for all the sharing and exchanges.
Gone!
.......
A monk asked Tozan, “When cold and heat come, how can we avoid them?”
Tozan said, “Why don’t you go to the place where there is no cold or heat?”
The monk said, “What is the place where there is no cold or heat?”
Tozan said, “When it’s cold, the cold kills you; when it’s hot, the heat kills you.”
This is not advice to “accept” your situation, as some commentators
have suggested, but a direct expression of authentic practice and
enlightenment. Master Tozan is not saying, “When cold, shiver; when hot,
sweat,” nor is he saying, “When cold, put on a sweater; when hot, use a
fan.” In the state of authentic practice and enlightenment, the cold
kills you, and there is only cold in the whole universe. The heat kills
you, and there is only heat in the whole universe. The fragrance of
incense kills you, and there is only the fragrance of incense in the
whole universe. The sound of the bell kills you, and there is only
“boooong” in the whole universe…
~The Flatbed Sutra of Louie Wing, Ted Biringer
....
“In our bustling
daily life we may feel that we have neither the time nor place to listen
quietly, to look freshly. But if we are truly interested in a place and
time to listen, an opportunity will present itself. It is one of the
amazing graces of being alive that when
there is a small flame of yearning to find out, we unexpectedly come
upon a bench to sit on out in the open and realize that there is more
space in this universe than the tight cocoon we have lived in all our
life.
With renewed questioning comes new wondering
and listening. Heaven and earth are open in simply being here as we are,
breathing in and out with an airplane humming in the sky—the miracle of
this moment! Nothing is separate. Everything is here as it is, utterly
simple. No one is here to lay any claim to it.
...
Open
listening embraces all the senses as one whole perception. There is no
division between looking, listening, smelling, touching, or tasting—just
undivided openness of all senses perceiving as one whole without a
separate me at work. There is no doer and no recipient here—just
spontaneous presence without fragmentation.
...
Is
it our task to find out whether or not there is total and complete
enlightenment like the Buddha proclaimed? I always liked the Buddha’s
saying: “I truly attained nothing from complete, unexcelled
enlightenment, and that is why it is called complete, unexcelled
enlightenment.” No-thing, no one to attain it, spaceless space, no one
there to occupy it. Just alive presence with the evening star in the
sky. Dying to all the stuff imagined and clung to about oneself—what I
am, what I was, what I will be, what I could be, should be . . . Can we
see all concepts as concepts with deepening clarity and wisdom? Not
immediately lurching toward something promised in the future that has
its sole existence in thought? Can we clearly discern what constitutes
thinking and what is actually present right here without needing to
think it? Can we discern it effortlessly? The open windows, fresh air
touching the skin, bright sunshine everywhere, all kinds of twittering
sounds, crows calling and breathing, pulsating life! Caw, caw, caw, caw .
. . Sensations throughout the body, breathing, beholding it, not the
words, but the aliveness of it all. Can we realize now that “complete
unexcelled enlightenment” is a concept?”
~ Toni Packer, The Wonder of Presence
...
Do you see now that Buddha is not speaking about formless awareness but
the insight into the absence of self/Self thus putting an end to the
deluded sense of Being that drives craving and rebirth in samsara?
The place where the five elements do not land is simply the place where
the earth, fire, wind, space and water kills “You” and fully shines as
its own radiance, a complete taste of itself and fully itself.
....
-
-
Soh Wei Yu Din Robinson
Yes
http://measurelessmind.ca/nirodhasanna.html
The Recognition of Cessation (Nirodhasaññā)
For whom there is neither a far shore,
Nor a near shore, nor both,
Who is free from distress, without ties,
Him I call a brāhmaṇa.
— Dhammapada 385
When
the recognition of dispassion is fully developed and realized, and with
no self to be found, nothing to be identified with, one realizes the
gnosis and vision of liberation (vimuttiñāṇadassana). This is
non-referential inner peace (ajjhattasanti). This is the full
recognition of cessation. AN 10.60 Girimānanda Sutta:
Now
what, Ānanda, is the recognition of cessation? Here, Ānanda, a monk,
gone to the wilderness, to the root of a tree, or to an empty place,
discriminates thus: ‘This is peace, this is excellent, that is: the
calming of all fabrications, the release of all acquisitions, the
elimination of craving, cessation, nibbāna.’ This, Ānanda, is called the
recognition of cessation.
This is the complete absence of agitation (calita natthi). Ud 8.4 Nibbāna Sutta:
There
being no agitation, there is tranquility. There being tranquility,
there is no inclination. There being no inclination, there is no coming
or going. There being no coming or going, there is no passing away or
arising. There being no passing away or arising, there is neither a here
nor a beyond nor a between-the-two. Just this is the end of
unsatisfactoriness.
This is the calming of all specific fabrication and volitional intention. MN 140 Dhātuvibhaṅga Sutta:
One
does not form any specific fabrication or volitional intention towards
either existence or non-existence. Not forming any specific fabrication
or volitional intention towards either existence or non-existence, he
does not cling to anything in this world. Not clinging, he is not
excited. Unexcited, he personally attains complete nibbāna. He discerns
that, ‘Birth is ended, the holy life fulfilled, done is what had to be
done, there is nothing further here.’
This is the freedom of absence which is revealed through the complete recognition of selflessness. Ud 1.10 Bāhiya Sutta:
‘The
seen will be merely the seen, the heard will be merely the heard, the
sensed will be merely the sensed, the known will be merely the known.’
This is how you should train, Bāhiya.
When, Bāhiya,
for you the seen will be merely the seen, the heard will be merely the
heard, the sensed will be merely the sensed, the known will be merely
the known, then Bāhiya, you will not be that. When, Bāhiya, you are not
that, then Bāhiya, you will not be there. When, Bāhiya, you are not
there, then Bāhiya, you will be neither here nor beyond nor
between-the-two. Just this is the end of unsatisfactoriness.
This is noble liberation which is the elimination of craving and clinging. MN 106 Āneñjasappāya Sutta:
This is death-free, namely, the liberation of mind through not clinging.
This
is the effortless clarity of consciousness which is non-abiding and not
established (appatiṭṭha viññāṇa). SN 22.53 Upaya Sutta:
When
that consciousness is not established, not increasing, not concocting,
it is liberated. Being liberated, it is steady. Being steady, it is
content. Being content, he is not excited. Unexcited, he personally
attains complete nibbāna. He discerns that, ‘Birth is ended, the holy
life fulfilled, done is what had to be done, there is nothing further
here.’
There is no more seeking of any kind. There is no
more personal agenda. There is no identifying with any phenomena or
turning anything into a fixed reference point. There is no “here” nor
“beyond” nor “between-the-two.”
The awakened mind is
measureless (appamāṇacetasa), free from any sort of measuring (pamāṇa).
In evocative terms, an awakened one is deep (gambhīra), boundless
(appameyya), and fathomless (duppariyogāḷha). Utterly free from any
reference to specifically fabricated consciousness
(viññāṇasaṅkhayavimutta). “Gone” (atthaṅgata), the measureless mind is
untraceable (ananuvejja) even here and now. It doesn’t abide in the
head, or in the body, or anywhere else for that matter. It doesn’t have
size or shape. It’s not an object or a subject.
Just as
the sky is formless and non-illustrative, the measureless mind is
non-illustrative and non-indicative (anidassana). This effortless
clarity is unmediated by any specific fabrication or volitional
intention. It is unaffected knowing: The seen is merely the seen
(diṭṭhamatta). The heard is merely the heard (sutamatta). The sensed is
merely the sensed (mutamatta). The known is merely the known
(viññātamatta). But there is no you there. Of course, this liberating
gnosis and vision can’t adequately be pointed out or indicated by words
alone. It is to be individually experienced (paccatta veditabba).
The Recognition of Cessation and the Seven Factors of Awakening (Satta Bojjhaṅgā)
Sustained,
dedicated practice of the recognition of cessation will gradually
create the optimal conditions for the arising of all seven factors of
awakening. SN 46.76 Nirodha Sutta (abridged):
Here
monks, a monk develops the awakening factor of mindfulness accompanied
by the recognition of cessation, dependent upon seclusion, dispassion,
and cessation, resulting in letting go. He develops the awakening factor
of dhamma-investigation accompanied by the recognition of cessation,
dependent upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, resulting in
letting go. He develops the awakening factor of energy accompanied by
the recognition of cessation, dependent upon seclusion, dispassion, and
cessation, resulting in letting go. He develops the awakening factor of
joy accompanied by the recognition of cessation, dependent upon
seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, resulting in letting go. He
develops the awakening factor of tranquility accompanied by the
recognition of cessation, dependent upon seclusion, dispassion, and
cessation, resulting in letting go. He develops the awakening factor of
meditative composure accompanied by the recognition of cessation,
dependent upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, resulting in
letting go. He develops the awakening factor of equanimity accompanied
by the recognition of cessation, dependent upon seclusion, dispassion,
and cessation, resulting in letting go.
It is in
this way that the recognition of cessation is developed and cultivated
so that it is of great fruit and benefit. It is in this way that the
recognition of cessation is developed and cultivated so that one of two
fruits is to be expected: either final gnosis in this very life or, if
there is a residue of clinging, the state of nonreturning. It is in this
way that the recognition of cessation is developed and cultivated so
that it leads to great good. It is in this way that the recognition of
cessation is developed and cultivated so that it leads to great security
from bondage. It is in this way that the recognition of cessation is
developed and cultivated so that it leads to a great sense of urgency.
It is in this way that the recognition of cessation is developed and
cultivated so that it leads to dwelling in great comfort.
-
-
-
Din Robinson Soh Wei Yu
I actually asked the same question of Jackson Peterson and he told me
no, said there was never anything there to begin with that could "cease"
-
Soh Wei Yu Din Robinson
In
the early tradition of Buddhism as taught by Buddha, the emphasis is on
'Cessation'. But this cessation is not about ceasing sense perception,
rather Nirvana is precisely defined by Buddha as having these
characteristics: 1) Cessation of all clinging 2) Cessation of all
identity - I Am, I shall be, I have been, I am the Witness, etc - the
Buddha listed all possible ways of identification and refuted them all
3) Cessation of passion (craving), aggression (anger), delusion 4) With
the cessation of the three poisons in number 3., comes the cessation of
rebirth in samsara, as rebirth in samsara is predicated upon the three
poisons. The cessation of these delusions occur even while one is fully
aware in waking state - therefore 'in the seen only the seen' -- in fact
there is only seeing, no seer, and also no seeing as seeing is just
colors. No you.
All these characteristics of Nirvana are interlinked.
Then
about 500 years after the passing of Buddha, the Mahayana teachings
developed and emphasized Bodhicitta - the compassionate aspiration for
not only one's personal liberation but the attainment of full awakening
of Buddhahood for the benefit of all sentient beings. In this tradition,
the emphasis is that samsara - the world of experience - is
fundamentally non-arisen, quiescent and equal to cessation,
fundamentally no different from nirvana as it is non-arising,
non-abiding and unceasing. This is because whatever originates in
dependence is fundamentally non-arisen, an example would be a reflection
of moon on water or a rainbow. Due to various conditions a reflection
appears but we cannot say that a moon has truly arisen or been created
in the water. Whatever originates in dependence are free of the extremes
of existence or non-existence, arising and ceasing. The nature of
appearance is merely empty clarity, free of extremes. The nature of
conventions is such that they are dependently designated and
fundamentally empty of essence/substance and unfindable when sought, just like the analogy of
chariot and parts.
So there are three parts to
emptiness 1) conventions are empty of essence and substance, entities and mental constructs are empty and unfindable when sought,
non-arisen, 2) the nature of all appearance are empty-clarity free from
the extremes of existence and non-existence, 3) whatever originates in
dependence are fundamentally non-arising and non-ceasing.
Now,
the early and later traditions do not contradict each other. I would
say they are complementary. The Mahayana tradition simply expands upon
the insight of emptiness that the Buddha already taught in the Pali
canon (like Phena Sutta, Kaccayanagotta Sutta, Dhammapada, etc) with
greater emphasis and clarification because it tends to be misunderstood
and misinterpreted by some 'Hinayana' commentators.
-
Soh Wei Yu In
the Mahayana tradition ala Lankavatara Sutra, it is taught that the
Arahat of the early tradition is equivalent to the 8th bhumi stage of
the Mahayana Bodhisattva in terms of eliminating all emotional
obscurations (passion, aggression, delusion) through realizing and
actualizing the emptiness of person (subjective self), while the end of
the 10th bhumi culminates in the end of not only emotional obscurations
but also all cognitive obscurations that misapprehends that there is
true existence of phenomena by clearly realizing the right view of
emptiness of all subject-action-object and the empty nature of
phenomena. Then one attains Buddhahood, when all emotional + cognitive
obscurations are eliminated through the eye of omniscience that
apprehends the nature of all phenomena completely without hindrance.
Emptiness of subjective person/self clears away emotional obscuration,
while emptiness of phenomena clears away cognitive obscuration.
Posts
又《涅槃经》云：“一切众生悉有佛性，无明覆故，不得解脱。”佛性者，即觉性也。但自觉觉他，觉知明了，则名解脱。故知一切诸善，以觉为根；因其觉根，遂能显现诸功德树。涅槃之果德，因此而成。如是观心，可名为了。 
