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Yin Ling Ic. U mean since all is ultimately illusory, we should not be too attached to permanent or impermanent view but rather see the right conditions and prescribe the right skillful means for even permanent and self-view can help if applied skillfully and no-self/impermanent view can be harmful if prescribed unskillfully. Then one can rest in equanimity and that is true actualisation of selflessness (emptiness) and dependent arising.
I wrote this bec I was seeing how we can’t really detect subtle impermanence with our senses, things seem quite permanent to us..
But then things are illusory to me at that time when I cannot detect subtle impermanence, eg the seemingly permanent house feels illusory, so I wonder, if I can ungrasp from the whole situation, does impermanence or permanence still needs to come into my contemplation ?
Illusory to me also means non arising and non abiding and non ceasing... which is not the same as them merely flickering in and out of existence [this is still a subtle view of subtly existing dharmas] in fast pace.
On the conventional level though, all conditioned phenomena are impermanent, whatever is subject to origination is subject to cessation, birth and death co-originates.
Soh Wei Yu yes so from insight of illusoriness, we understand permanent as absence of cause of origination and cessation and not as "unchanging".
It is also important because mind is often taught as clear and knowing and this very often lead to self-view. When anatta insight dawns, it is also recognised that appearances are mind, there is no mind other than the ongoing appearances and therefore mind is empty and conventional. This is counter intuitive to our existing paradigm and must be pointed out otherwise we r not recognizing the nature of mind. Like echo and rainbow, the nature of mind is spacious and free, without essence.
Yin Ling Yup.. to be more precise the 'flickering dharmas having momentary existence undergoing arising, abiding and subsiding' may be present even post anatta.. but gone after twofold emptiness. Or like you said no-self(two levels). But I agree with your statement about it being a raft.