[4:52 PM, 4/24/2020] John Tan: What u understand
[4:53 PM, 4/24/2020] John Tan: When u say the tree exist, it is out there....how u feel and experience
[4:55 PM, 4/24/2020] Soh Wei Yu: Feel like a separate observer interacting with an observer independent object out there.. everything about the tree including its shapes and colours just exist out there and are intrinsic attributes of the object
[4:55 PM, 4/24/2020] Soh Wei Yu: Also experience things from a distance as a self before anatta
[4:55 PM, 4/24/2020] John Tan: Yes
[4:55 PM, 4/24/2020] John Tan: Even the sound we hear.
[4:56 PM, 4/24/2020] John Tan: We don't actually examine and investigate deeply.
[4:57 PM, 4/24/2020] John Tan: What happened in I M or I-I or just I and post that?
[4:59 PM, 4/24/2020] Soh Wei Yu: Theres a doubtless direct immediate taste of luminosity.. without concept or intermediary. Just a pure sense of presence
[5:00 PM, 4/24/2020] Soh Wei Yu: But for I AM just the thought realm and not as sound etc
[5:00 PM, 4/24/2020] John Tan: I m not talking about that
[5:01 PM, 4/24/2020] John Tan: I m talking about trees, separation, objects...as u said earlier...does it change anything
[5:03 PM, 4/24/2020] Soh Wei Yu: At the I AM level up to one mind, all phenomena are like passing clouds floating by from within a vast ground of being.. especially at I AM it still feels dualistic. At one mind everything is indistinguishable but there is not the clarity of view and no mind not fully stabilized. Anatta realization dissolves the background observer
[5:03 PM, 4/24/2020] Soh Wei Yu: At I AM and one mind i feel like the source out of which everything emerges
[5:05 PM, 4/24/2020] John Tan: At I M, do u feel things r still external?
[5:05 PM, 4/24/2020] Soh Wei Yu: Yes and the focus is on the internal sense of background beingness
[5:06 PM, 4/24/2020] John Tan: Just recall ur experience even after I M. Don't mixed up phases of insights and gross through.
[5:07 PM, 4/24/2020] John Tan: Do u or do u not feel things r still external?
[5:09 PM, 4/24/2020] Soh Wei Yu: There is a sense that they are contained or emerging from and subsiding within a formless container of pure being.. so things are in a sense within me but not me, still dualistic
I wrote about how i am not running past objects, the scenery is passing within me
[5:10 PM, 4/24/2020] John Tan: So from before I M and post I M, what has changed?
[5:11 PM, 4/24/2020] Soh Wei Yu: Before I AM, i am a little person or ego residing inside the body relating to an object out there
After I AM, the body and mind and universe merely emerges and subsides from the source of pure beingness
[5:12 PM, 4/24/2020] John Tan: Ok. Before that, what is reality to u?
[5:12 PM, 4/24/2020] John Tan: And after that what do u mean by reality?
[5:13 PM, 4/24/2020] Soh Wei Yu: Before that the identity self as well as objective world is reality
[5:13 PM, 4/24/2020] Soh Wei Yu: After I AM, only the I AM is ultimately real. Everything else is just like projection of a movie on a movie screen
[5:14 PM, 4/24/2020] John Tan: Before that reality is physical reality correct?
[5:14 PM, 4/24/2020] John Tan: After that I M is the Reality.
[5:15 PM, 4/24/2020] Soh Wei Yu: Yeah.. physical reality plus the sense of being a person relating to physical reality.. the person is also seen to be part of that
[5:15 PM, 4/24/2020] Soh Wei Yu: Yeah
[5:15 PM, 4/24/2020] John Tan: Now from before I M to I M, what has changed?
[5:17 PM, 4/24/2020] Soh Wei Yu: Before I AM ignorance and karmic propensity projects ego and world as real... After I AM the intense luminosity is so real and overwhelming yet its nature is not understood, the mind with its ignorant mechanism of understanding reality then swaps the sense of identity and imputation onto the I AM. Then it turns into ultimate reality and background
[5:19 PM, 4/24/2020] John Tan: Don't tell me on hindsight, tell me just before and after I M experience....don't tell me anything other thing...
[5:19 PM, 4/24/2020] John Tan: U r not focusing. from things being very physical to I M spiritual, what has happened?
[5:20 PM, 4/24/2020] John Tan: U r turning ur attention from external to internal right?
[5:21 PM, 4/24/2020] John Tan: So what r the difference from before I M and After?
[5:21 PM, 4/24/2020] Soh Wei Yu: Yes focus on internal, just pure beingness
[5:21 PM, 4/24/2020] John Tan: Until what happened?
[5:21 PM, 4/24/2020] Soh Wei Yu: Before i am focus is as a observer focusing outwards but dualistic
[5:23 PM, 4/24/2020] Soh Wei Yu: Until the four aspects of i am and then nondual insights.. the aspect of impersonality is not focused solely on internal but leads to a sense of universality, diffused and being lived. But its still dual here and attention is still mainly focused on internal and background.
What really changed is after nondual and especially anatta
[5:24 PM, 4/24/2020] John Tan: No
[5:24 PM, 4/24/2020] John Tan: What is the most important experience in I M?
[5:24 PM, 4/24/2020] John Tan: What must happen in I M?
[5:25 PM, 4/24/2020] John Tan: There is not even an M, just I... complete stillness, just I correct?
[5:26 PM, 4/24/2020] Soh Wei Yu: Realization, certainty of being.. yes just stillness and doubtless sense of I/Existence
[5:26 PM, 4/24/2020] John Tan: And what is the complete stillness just I?
[5:26 PM, 4/24/2020] Soh Wei Yu: Just I, just presence itself
[5:28 PM, 4/24/2020] John Tan: This stillness absorbs excludes and includes everything into just I. What is that experience called?
[5:29 PM, 4/24/2020] Soh Wei Yu: I am everything?
[5:29 PM, 4/24/2020] John Tan: That experience is non-dual.
[5:30 PM, 4/24/2020] John Tan: And in that experience actually, there is no external nor internal, there is also no observer or observed.
[5:30 PM, 4/24/2020] John Tan: Just complete stillness as I.
[5:31 PM, 4/24/2020] Soh Wei Yu: Ic.. yeah even I AM is nondual
[5:31 PM, 4/24/2020] John Tan: That is ur first phase of a non dual experience.
[5:32 PM, 4/24/2020] John Tan: We say this is the pure thought experience in stillness
[5:32 PM, 4/24/2020] John Tan: Thought realm
[5:33 PM, 4/24/2020] John Tan: But at that moment we don't know that...we treated that as ultimate reality.
[5:33 PM, 4/24/2020] Soh Wei Yu: Yeah
[5:34 PM, 4/24/2020] Soh Wei Yu: I find it weird at that time when u said it is non conceptual thought
[5:34 PM, 4/24/2020] Soh Wei Yu: Lol
[5:34 PM, 4/24/2020] John Tan: Yeah
[5:34 PM, 4/24/2020] John Tan: Lol
[5:34 PM, 4/24/2020] John Tan: Now I dun want to mix up
[5:35 PM, 4/24/2020] John Tan: But u really do not know what that encounter is...seems mystical
[5:35 PM, 4/24/2020] John Tan: We thought it is damn special right🤣🤣🤣
[5:37 PM, 4/24/2020] Soh Wei Yu: Yeah lol
[5:38 PM, 4/24/2020] John Tan: Now what about non-dual? What leads to non-dual for u before anatta?
[5:41 PM, 4/24/2020] Soh Wei Yu: The first breakthrough was when i was dancing on the nightclub.. at that time i was a little drunk but because i was dancing and listening to the music, the attention was shifted from background to foreground.. then the bahiya sutta came up in my mind and that triggered a vivid nondual experience and i understood that the taste of existence is not just background i amness but in everything.. then that nondual experience lasted two days before background witnessing returned. When i went to army in september i was contemplating the border and edge between manifestation and awareness a lot and i became increasingly certain that awareness is nondual and the nondual experience is stabilizing but it is not anatta yet. I realised anatta in october
[5:43 PM, 4/24/2020] John Tan: Now from I M, is the not just a non-dual experience, u have en-counter clarity directly and without intermediary.
[5:44 PM, 4/24/2020] John Tan: Therefore 明心 (apprehending Mind) or 验证本心 (experientially verifying the original Mind)
[5:45 PM, 4/24/2020] John Tan: This is the most key insight but it requires a non-dual mode to 验证 (experiential verification)。
[5:46 PM, 4/24/2020] Soh Wei Yu: Ic..
[5:46 PM, 4/24/2020] John Tan: So it is what I call 顿悟 (sudden awakening) also.
[5:46 PM, 4/24/2020] John Tan: Now Reality in esoteric practice is referring to this reality.
[5:48 PM, 4/24/2020] John Tan: When ur focus turned internal, u find that without this I, nothing is real, this is more real than real. Correct?
[5:50 PM, 4/24/2020] Soh Wei Yu: Ic.. yeah
[5:50 PM, 4/24/2020] Soh Wei Yu: Only I AM is more real than real
[5:51 PM, 4/24/2020] John Tan: When u turned from I M to non-dual, u r dissolving the line or layer that divides, when u dissolve that line, u have sort of non-dual experience.
[5:51 PM, 4/24/2020] John Tan: But that dissolving is not effortless, y?
[5:51 PM, 4/24/2020] Soh Wei Yu: Yes.. i saw in august that the taste of reality and existence is also found in everything.. although the dualistic view and inherent view still hasnt gone through refinement
[5:51 PM, 4/24/2020] Soh Wei Yu: Yeah
[5:52 PM, 4/24/2020] John Tan: What exactly is preventing u from have effortless non-dual, what exactly is causing the oscillation to and fro from background to foreground?
[5:53 PM, 4/24/2020] John Tan: Don't talk about "inherent view"
[5:54 PM, 4/24/2020] Soh Wei Yu: The very strong tendency to view that I AM as eternal witness and ultimate reality is still there.. so without a breakthrough in view i returned to witnessing after 2 days until insights into nondual deepen
[5:56 PM, 4/24/2020] John Tan: U don't have to know about "emptiness" or "inherent view", u can just contemplate on certain koans and stanzas. What must happen for effortlessness to happen?
[5:57 PM, 4/24/2020] Soh Wei Yu: Insight into anatta leads to effortlessness
[5:58 PM, 4/24/2020] John Tan: What is anatta?
[5:58 PM, 4/24/2020] John Tan: What exactly is seen through?
[5:59 PM, 4/24/2020] Soh Wei Yu: In seeing just the seen.. i saw through the sense of a seer besides seeing or seeing besides seen.. the subject-action-object and background/foreground paradigm is seen through and therefore i realise and actualized awareness as pure manifestation
[6:01 PM, 4/24/2020] John Tan: Now there r two important points, seeing through self/Self and seeing through subject-action-object, any difference?
[6:02 PM, 4/24/2020] Soh Wei Yu: Subject/object if seen as undivided can still end up in one mind, seeing through self/Self dissolves the construct via realisation into mere luminous manifestation and aggregates
[6:03 PM, 4/24/2020] Soh Wei Yu: Its a bit like chariot except i wasnt thinking of that analogy at that time
[6:04 PM, 4/24/2020] Soh Wei Yu: But anatta properly seen dissolves subject-action-object
[6:04 PM, 4/24/2020] John Tan: (referring to Chariot) This is much more deeper
[6:05 PM, 4/24/2020] John Tan: This seeing through, what did u understand?
[6:07 PM, 4/24/2020] Soh Wei Yu: The emptiness of the construct of self/Self and awareness, as well as subject-action-object structure.. seeing through the emptiness of awareness as background and realising and actualising luminous taste as manifestation.. also at that time no agency and two stanza becoming clearer. One week later the same insight of anatta applied on mind body led to mind body drop
[6:09 PM, 4/24/2020] John Tan: 1. U see through constructs
2. U understand the relationship between constructs and experience
3. What else???
[6:09 PM, 4/24/2020] John Tan: What did i tell u?
[6:13 PM, 4/24/2020] Soh Wei Yu: Hmm not sure.. after that no mind and luminous taste becomes effortless mode rather than efforting
[6:14 PM, 4/24/2020] John Tan: The power of constructs, how it creates an experience so real and so convincing, how it blinds. U cannot just look at just one side of the coin.
[6:15 PM, 4/24/2020] Soh Wei Yu: Ic.. yeah i had a better understanding of the power of constructs a year after that
[6:17 PM, 4/24/2020] John Tan: If u do not understand the power of constructs, u r only knowing half. It is the process of forming and dissolving these constructs in relation to consciousness creating all the one mind, no mind, anatta, non-dual experiences.
[6:18 PM, 4/24/2020] John Tan: And u r always overcoming those, so know the power and know the way of overcoming and what do u call that?
[6:20 PM, 4/24/2020] Soh Wei Yu: Prajna?
[6:20 PM, 4/24/2020] Soh Wei Yu: Wisdom
[6:20 PM, 4/24/2020] John Tan: No
[6:23 PM, 4/24/2020] Soh Wei Yu: Karmic propensities?
[6:23 PM, 4/24/2020] Soh Wei Yu: Bond
[6:23 PM, 4/24/2020] Soh Wei Yu: Ignorance
[6:24 PM, 4/24/2020] John Tan: U can say all that...but what do u call these constructs in Buddhism?
[6:25 PM, 4/24/2020] Soh Wei Yu: Mental proliferation?
[6:26 PM, 4/24/2020] John Tan: 造作
[6:26 PM, 4/24/2020] John Tan: Means what?
[6:26 PM, 4/24/2020] John Tan: Mental proliferation means what?
[6:27 PM, 4/24/2020] Soh Wei Yu: It is the continuous activity of projecting those constructs into reality
[6:28 PM, 4/24/2020] John Tan: It is the continuous activity of projecting those constructs into experience...
[6:29 PM, 4/24/2020] John Tan: Now there r 2 one is releasing these constructs, the other is the post releasing...so what r the difference?
[6:30 PM, 4/24/2020] John Tan: The actual experience post releasing
[6:31 PM, 4/24/2020] John Tan: And the question is emptiness and DO just seeing through these constructs? Or is there something more?
[6:34 PM, 4/24/2020] John Tan: When u see through the background, u don't just experience vivid effortless non-dual experiences. But u always realize all along there isn't any self behind, just this activity of on going proliferation ... And the freedom of it. When it is free...what is experience like?
(to be continued)