Experiencing No Boundaries: A conversation between Yin Ling and Angelo

 Description: “Yin is a physician (Internal Medicine) in Malaysia. She also experiences reality without boundaries. Don't you want to hear her story? It's a good one, check it out!”





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    Ng Xin Zhao
    These suttas may help you.
    Don't look down upon Jhanas. They are needed for Arahanthood.
    Also, can train to be vegan to increase compassion. Can youtube slaughterhouse videos.


    • Yin Ling
    *comment based on Buddhism as the person I’m commenting to has a Buddhist Background but awakening is universal*
    no lah not looking down on jhanas. I talked about how I put in great effort to try to enter.
    But one have to really ask sincerely, why is jhana needed on the path? What did the Buddha say about concentration on the path, why does it brings one to? 😊
    Why did the Buddha left the two ascetics? What is he not happy about? ☺️
    Eventually at the end of the day, we must ask ourselves honestly,
    Am I seeing reality?
    Because the only way out of suffering is seeing reality clearly. So am I seeing that ? If not, why?


    • Ng Xin Zhao
    When there is no right concentration, for one deficient in right concentration, the knowledge and vision of things as they really are lacks its proximate cause.
    Buddha went back to the first Jhana and affirms it as the way to nibbana.
    He also later on found a way to attain to Nibbana even via the formless attainments, goes through them, to the cessation of perception and feelings.

    • Reply
    • 8h
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    • Yin Ling
    What is concentration for? 😁


    • Ng Xin Zhao
    Yin Ling the knowledge and vision of things as they really are


    • Ng Xin Zhao
    Yin Ling “And what is the development of concentration that, when developed & pursued, leads to the attainment of knowledge & vision? There is the case where a monk attends to the perception of light and is resolved on the perception of daytime [at any…
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    • Yin Ling
    Ng Xin Zhao what’s the attainment of knowledge ?
    What knowledge and vision is Buddha talking about specifically ?😄😊


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    • Yin Ling
    Yepppp.
    You got it.
    Angelo and I was talking about this in the last few mins 🙂
    Right concentration is what could allow INSIGHT or REALIZATION to arise.
    A raft. Even insight is a raft .
    Eventually at the end of the day, all 84000 roads in Buddhism should bring one to realisation , insight of how reality is.
    Bc when one see clearly how things really are. Which is suchness. Suffering ends.
    The Buddha just wanted to end our suffering.

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    • 7h
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    • Ng Xin Zhao
    Yin Ling unless you're an non returner already, which from your original post you admit not to be yet, there's still room for improvement in immersion.
    See AN 3 87 above.
    Take another case of a mendicant who has fulfilled their ethics and immersion, but has limited wisdom. (Non returner)
    AN 11.2 above makes it clear to see that it's continuously filling up of the previous factors which fills up the later factors.
    Edit sorry, it's AN 10.2 here
    Thus, bhikkhus, one stage flows into the next stage, one stage fills up the next stage, for going from the near shore to the far shore.”
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    • 7h
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    • Yin Ling
    Hmmm I’m not interested in “attainments” anymore. No one can be totally sure. I definitely can’t. If others can, I leave them to be. I also don’t engage in such discussion, imo for me it is futile.
    My priority is how firm I can hold wisdom of anatta and emptiness throughout my life, through samsara.
    So that’d be my focus for the near future. 🙂


    • Ng Xin Zhao
    Yin Ling I understand the difficulty to try to use conventional speech for you now. Sutta does mostly use this. Don't need to be attached to the labels of attainments, it's a mere designation for ease of communication.
    So what you're saying is still that you're aiming for arahanthood who can see emptiness all the time.
    > And how does a noble disciple live diligently? Firstly, a noble disciple has experiential confidence in the Buddha … But they’re not content with that confidence, and make a further effort for solitude by day and retreat by night. When they live diligently, joy springs up. Being joyful, rapture springs up. When the mind is full of rapture, the body becomes tranquil. When the body is tranquil, they feel bliss. And when blissful, the mind becomes immersed in samādhi. When the mind is immersed in samādhi, principles become clear. Because principles have become clear, they’re reckoned to live diligently.
    How to achieve your aim is clearly spelt out by the Buddha to be keep on practising in samadhi (jhana).

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    • 5h
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    • Yin Ling
    Ng Xin Zhao this is not describing the samadhi of deep concentration .
    This is awakening. Insight samadhi.
    The mind in naturally samadhi and vipassana in awakening.
    Not one second we are away from samadhi.
    You will slowly find out 😁😬


    • Ng Xin Zhao
    Yin Ling Thanks. Sorry for giving advice out of my depth. Hope it's not annoying.
    If your interpretation is correct, that not one second we are away from samadhi, then why in the sutta there's the possibility the mind not immersed in samadhi? Note here that the noble disciple is referring to the Stream winner and above (and below arahant) due to the experiential confidence in the Buddha phrasing.
    “And how does a noble disciple live negligently? Firstly, a noble disciple has experiential confidence in the Buddha … They’re content with that confidence, and don’t make a further effort for solitude by day or retreat by night. When they live negligently, there’s no joy. When there’s no joy, there’s no rapture. When there’s no rapture, there’s no tranquility. When there’s no tranquility, there’s suffering. When one is suffering, the mind does not become immersed in samādhi. When the mind is not immersed in samādhi, principles do not become clear. Because principles have not become clear, they’re reckoned to live negligently.
    Furthermore, a noble disciple has experiential confidence in the teaching … the Saṅgha … And they have the ethical conduct loved by the noble ones … leading to immersion. They’re content with that ethical conduct loved by the noble ones, and don’t make a further effort for solitude by day or retreat by night. When they live negligently, there’s no joy. When there’s no joy, there’s no rapture. When there’s no rapture, there’s no tranquility. When there’s no tranquility, there’s suffering. When one is suffering, the mind does not become immersed in samādhi. When the mind is not immersed in samādhi, principles do not become clear. Because principles have not become clear, they’re reckoned to live negligently. That’s how a noble disciple lives negligently.
    And how does a noble disciple live diligently? Firstly, a noble disciple has experiential confidence in the Buddha … But they’re not content with that confidence, and make a further effort for solitude by day and retreat by night. When they live diligently, joy springs up. Being joyful, rapture springs up. When the mind is full of rapture, the body becomes tranquil. When the body is tranquil, they feel bliss. And when blissful, the mind becomes immersed in samādhi. When the mind is immersed in samādhi, principles become clear. Because principles have become clear, they’re reckoned to live diligently.
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    • Yin Ling
    Ng Xin Zhao I’m not an academician so I cannot quote references for insight samadhi.
    But post anatta, samadhi and vipassana is natural. It is experential. And very blissful. 😁the samadhi bliss is no less than jhana. I read this passage and it seems to describe my experience.
    Need ask Soh Wei Yu for reference. He is more knowledgeable when it comes to references.
    Soh do you know anything about samadhi post awakening? The natural samadhi of mind.

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    • 4h
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    • Yin Ling
    Ng Xin Zhao Angelo’s reply about jhana. He is spot on 🙂
    May be an image of text


    • Ng Xin Zhao
    Yin Ling Buddha goes into jhanas in the DN 16, before he died.
    Sariputta abides in jhanas even as an arahant, but no thought of "I am entering Jhana."
    So realizing no self doesn't close off the ability to enter jhanas.


    • Yin Ling
    Ng Xin Zhao nope it doesn’t.
    But … jhana is to bring one to insight.
    When the insight arise already.
    One can use jhana to develop powers.
    Happiness.
    But it’s really quite irrelevant.
    It’s like retrogress.
    It’s like the Buddha leaving the 2 ascetics because he already can do jhanas but it’s not complete.
    When he awakened he awaken to anatta and emptiness. DO.
    You see?
    But of course concentration must be trained. Not until altered consciousness jhana but just bring the 7 factors to full power.
    That’s how I was taught about the whole path.
    All my words are experential, Means I only say it if I really experience it.
    Not theory. Theory is useless is one cannot practise and actually actualise it.
    Anyways I thjnk we need to stop this discussion as it is quite idle lol.
    If you already have the insight, you already have the wisdom eye. One of the highest treasure on the path. Treasure it. If not, work hard at it, open the wisdom eye.
    The rest are just distractions.


    • Ng Xin Zhao
    Yin Ling 7 factors of enlightenment include samadhi, full power wouldn't it include the deep Jhanas?
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    • May be an image of text 
     
    Malcolm: "The dhyāna being discussed is not the dhyāna discussed in Dzogchen teachings. The latter does not depend on mental factors, unlike the former. So the answer is a solid no. In fact, it is the opposite. Rig pa (knowledge of one's own state) brings about natural concentration (rang bzhin bsam gtan), which is unlike the dhyānas spoken of in the lower yānas. Longchenpa writes about this extensively."



    • Soh Wei Yu
    John Tan, 2006:
    Reply part 1:
    Is Absorption not aware of other things? This is difficult to say. Although many articles and books about mindfulness seem to suggest that it is so, this is not necessarily true when we progress towards the more subtle experience. Clarity can come a time where it is so clear that it is an absorption, it is a sort of Insight-Absorption but It is different from absorption derived from concentration. It is clarity absorption where it touches the heart of 'things', that is itself. For example being taste itself, it is absorbed yet completely clear. This is truly blissful and beyond description. I have not come across any book touching this yet and I hope Toni's new book can write something about it. 🙂
    Reply part 2:
    The AMness can be said to be a form of absorption where the object of concentration is the Self. It can be a question "Who am I" that leads one to the experience of the subject-object becoming one. Till a point the practitioner simply experiences a pure sense of existence. However such mode of experience has no understanding of its luminous clarity and its nature as anatta. The key point about mindful awareness is there is no keeping of the mind on anything and by not resting on anything, it fuses into everything; therefore it cannot be concentrated; rather it is to relax into nothingness empty of self, empty of any artificial doing so that the natural luminosity can take its own course. There is no focusing, there is only allowing the mirror bright clarity to shine with it natural radiance. In essence there is no one there, only the phenomenon arising and ceasing telling their stories.


    • May be an image of text 
     
    Malcolm: "In dzogchen teachings one is using many different methods to discover natural concentration. Discovering shamatha is relatively simple when you use the approaches taught in the dzogchen tantras, rather than relying on the gradual method introduced by Kamalshila.

    Rigpa is knowledge of your own state, when you have it, you never lose it, even if you are distracted.

    One point where I really disagree with Wallace is his idea that trekcho is Dzogchen shamatha. I really dispute this notion."



    • Yin Ling
    Soh Wei Yu you are scarily resourceful 😂 thank you very much.
    This fits my experience. The reply 1 in johns message is v relatable.
    I wonder what is yours?
    The experience of being completely intimate with all phenomenas without a self is very absorbed and very blissful.
    Till I don’t see the point of jhana. I used to access it, the lighter version of jhanas, but now that I have anatta, the slight split in jhana feels awfully disturbing
    But I still prwtise concentration though. Just not moving on the jhanic arc. Lazy 😂.


    • Yin Ling
    Awakening requires the 7 factors to mature. Once all mature awakening happens.
    Post awakening the 7 factors are there however strength of it is dependent on ppl
    . Personally my first 3 factors are powerful, overpowering even during first awakening. Bliss like crazy, energy so much until cannot sleep.
    Now I’m trying to bring tranquility and concentration up. To even out.
    So that this awakening is balanced.
    It’s not something before/ after awakening though, I have been trained to watch these factors closely ever since I started this journey


    • Soh Wei Yu
    Same.
    Actually there is still a role in jhana but i dont really focus on them nowadays.
    Dzogchen, Meditation and Jhana
    AWAKENINGTOREALITY.COM
    Dzogchen, Meditation and Jhana
    Dzogchen, Meditation and Jhana

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    • William Lim
    "Why am I needed?" 😂


    Yin Ling
    William Lim that was truly what I felt 😂

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