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Just a sharing, and see if my xp resonates with others.
I receive a kind message asking about how I “see” my emotion world and thought world as opposed to others?
There is always a continuum of thoughts for this being and we are not privy to another’s thought, that is for sure.
So the person ask, does that not affect how the whole “no self” experience?
I gave that a serious contemplation this morning’s meditation and look into my xp.
I realise there is two parts of the no self insight.
First part is like in the first few sentences of the Bahiya Sutta, “in the seen only the seen” and etc.
Manifestation and awareness arise in and of itself, without a seer, doer, hearer. That is clear when initial no self insight arise.
However xp always seen to be appropriated somewhere - like “my thoughts”, “my emotions” “my cognized” “my music” becusse we can’t see other ppls thoughts and emotions and we can’t hear what the hear.
There is this subtly “mine-ness” in xp, which is still an attachment.
Suddenly this morning the last part of Bahiya sutta sprung forth into attention - there is no you here, there is no you there, there is no you in between.. this is the end of suffering.
For all experience, there is no appropriation to a “you” or “mine”. Just that itself is all.
Imo, The Buddha was trying to teach us to dis-identified with “mine” in the second part, less of an I , as the I should be seen through in the first part of Bahiya sutta.
When there is no you/mine-ness in these emotions and thoughts, and they arise just dependently from conditions, not being appropriated to any person, all xp becomes equal and there is no worries of other ppls emotions and thoughts because even the emotions and thoughts that feels to be for this person here are not even “mine”. Xp sync!
Soh Wei Yu thanks Soh for your comment.
I thjnk it will be worthwhile for me to go back to do classic vipassana and note carefully everything in consciousness to detect subtle “Mine” . Somehow this way of vipassana helps but I can still sense subtle Mine in consciousness.
Then, I also realise, emptiness is another separate insight / realization.
Feel like DO could solve both problems. Lol. Kill 2 birds with one stone. In DO, hard to have mine, have to have substance.
I am not entirely sure.
Will continue gazing at my navel
Soh Wei Yu
Yin Ling Agree
12th September 2010
How have you been getting on? I am planning for my retirement.
I think after stabilizing non-dual experience and maturing the insight of anatta, practice must turn towards ‘self-releasing’ and ‘dispassion’ rather than intensifying‘non-dual’ luminosity. Although being bare in attention or naked in awareness will help in dissolving the sense of ‘I’ and division, we must also look into dissolving the sense of ‘mine’. In my opinion, dissolving of the sense of ‘I’ does not equate to dissolving the sense of ‘mine’ and attachment to possessions can still be strong even after very stable non-dual experience. This is because the former realization only manage to eliminate the dualistic tendency while the latter requires us to embody and actualize the right view of ‘emptiness’. Very seldom do we realize it has a lot to do with our ‘view’ that we hold in our deep most consciousness. We must allow our luminous essence to meet differing conditions to realise the latent deep. All our body cells are imprinted and hardwired to ‘hold’. Not to under-estimate it.
Soh Wei Yu
Also I believe I wrote this in 2014:
I commented: this is very important.. and lately I'm seeing it more as well. To overcome all sense of I, me, and even mine, D.O. has to step in. Many people talk about no I, no background, but still there is sense of mine... and there are also those that say everything is 'the manifestation of my mind or my nature'.. that is subtly subsuming everything to mind. Even if there is no duality.
In dependent origination you totally see the entire formation of interdependencies... not in words but directly taste the totality of its workings forming every moment of experience. When the drum beat sounds you don't see it as just 'the manifestation of my mind' but you see it as the person hitting, the drum, the vibration, the ears etc... all in total exertion... how can that have anything to do with I or mine? It is not 'mine' anymore than it is the person hitting, the drum's, the vibration's... etc. It is not only that there is no hearer behind sound... not only no I but no mine at all.. the sound itself does not belong to anyone... it is the entire universe in total exertion so to speak.. but it is not understood in logic. You have to see the whole process and interdependencies directly. Breathing is like this... walking is like this... every action every experience is like this. This is the path to dissolve I, me, mine... only through D.O. is the release thorough.
Not 'everything is just consciousness' or 'everything is my consciousness'... consciousness isn't that special or important. It does not have a special, independent, ontological status. Rather it is the interdependencies the workings of D.O. through which that moment of consciousness/experience is in total exertion. The true turning point is when mind is completely separated from mine.. I, me, mine.. the dualistic and inherent tendency must be dissolved and replaced with the wisdom of D.O."
Soh Wei Yu thanks!
Personally for me, deconstructing the I and deconstructing the Mine. Both lead to differnt understanding and experience.
The deconstruction of the I seems straightforward and clear. It’s also easy to see if an “I” comes up.
The “mine” is so much subtler. Yet seeing it and deconstructing it gives one much more “non-attachment” taste that the uprooting of an “I”.
Wonder if it makes sense lol.
I was reading through some posts on “mine-ness” on ATR and it seems like most of the practitioners agree that it’s a separate domain to deconstruct altogether. Really nice. Never see it spoke about so clearly elsewhere. Most treat I and mine as the same but in practise it really is not.
Soh Wei Yu
Yin Ling from 2012 conversation http://www.awakeningtoreality.com/.../transcript-with...
Jui: I always hear people say when you see one object you are like the object… but in my experience…
John: In your experience now, your self at the behind will be gone. But you are unable to reach completely mind to object (one pointedness). But your behind disappears. But to zhuan zhu yi ge (be absorbed in one [object]) you are unable to reach, that requires Samadhi state. That is, that behind is gone, but you are one pointed into one object, then with view you will experience maha experience, total exertion. He (me/Soh) is also the same, the behind is gone, no more self, only the sound but there is no self, there is just this, there is just that. That is because the insight has arisen but concentration (?) my way is different. Before insight of anatta I had decades of practicing meditation, then I AM, then meditation, then I AM. My practice is like that. (?) but for you guys, you see clearly first, the behind is gone and your experience becomes very clear and vivid and yet you are unable to concentrate. So you must understand that concentration is different. Peacefulness and releasing is (different), clear vivid awareness is also different. It requires different insights and practice. You still have to meditate, it is impossible that (?) you should be in this stage, you are very clear, the click click sound is felt to be very vivid, then one day you will have total exertion feeling, but you must practice releasing and concentration. When the mind is discursive and wandering, you need practice. your mindfulness/thought needs to be practiced. You need to have a stillness/Samadhi. (to me/Soh) Your stillness is still not enough. Your mind is still having thought after thought, you are unable to have stillness. But your insight is able to reach no self. You are still unable to reach stillness and releasing. It is not a matter of saying then you can reach it, it requires practice.
(Comments by Soh: before my realization of anatta I would do samatha and enter into jhanic bliss [samadhi bliss but not resting in nature of mind], afterwards it is more towards the bliss of no-self luminosity, yet samadhi is still vital)
Me: best way is to practice vipasssana?
John: Vipassana … when it becomes non conceptual and non dual, it is even more difficult like for you, your insight is there, there is no self, yet when you sit you are unable to reach it. Because you need to focus. You need to focus your breath, (otherwise?) unable to reach it. For normal people they are able to reach it even easier. For you it is somewhat more difficult. So I always tell you, for example, for you and him the way of entering is by clear luminosity… feel as clear as possible. For example when you breathe, feel your breathe entirely. So you feel very very clear, just this breath you know. Then you feel the vividness. It is easier to enter this way.
(Comments by Soh: before my realization of anatta I would do samatha and enter into jhanic bliss, afterwards it is more towards the bliss of no-self luminosity, yet samadhi is still vital)
Me: so you are advising Anapanasati?
John: yes of course, then you do many times. But when you do many times you are not counting. Don’t count. Just feel the entire sensation of the breath. You are just that sensation of your breath. Then you are so clear with your entire breath. That whole aircon that touches your nostrils, then going into your lungs. It is just this sensation. This is what we call breath. So you keep on doing. You are very aware of it. Actually it is not you are very aware of lah. This is what I call awareness and the whole thing is awareness, there is no somebody awaring. It is just breath. Then slowly you will have this (Samadhi?), you need to keep doing.
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