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I wrote:
Blue sky. Green trees fluttering. Just that, nothing else. Vivid, alive, and illusory. Enjoy your weekends.
31Angelo Gerangelo, Alejandro Serrano and 29 others
Blue sky. Green trees fluttering. Just that, nothing else. Vivid, alive, and illusory. Enjoy your weekends.
31Angelo Gerangelo, Alejandro Serrano and 29 others
Comments
Soh Wei Yu Tan Jui Horng there is nothing further to deconstruct in the actualization of empty non-arisen suchness or emptiness as form
Manage
Tan Jui Horng Soh Wei Yu Does that mean blue and green cannot be deconstructed?
I am asking only because I am wondering that while Andre's expression is more correct, it is still not completely correct, and requires further explanation like his answer to me.
But I suppose that is the problem of expressing something in language. At a certain point we either become unintelligible or end up with a 1000 word explanation of what blue sky and green trees really mean.
ManageI am asking only because I am wondering that while Andre's expression is more correct, it is still not completely correct, and requires further explanation like his answer to me.
But I suppose that is the problem of expressing something in language. At a certain point we either become unintelligible or end up with a 1000 word explanation of what blue sky and green trees really mean.
Tan Jui Horng André A. Pais
Thanks. Although I guess that would be a mouthful. Perhaps the only
appropriate reaction to seeing blue sky and green trees is to smile and
enjoy.
Manage
Jackson Peterson Oy, why bicker over words, yet words still appearing, thoughts arising, blue skies, green leaves... all movements like wind...
Manage
Soh Wei Yu John Tan
self (background) and phenomena (foreground) to which characteristics
belong are constructs, when they dissolve then illusory appearance are
tasted as empty suchness without reference points or sense that things
exist somewhere and belong to something, illusory like mirage
Manage
Soh Wei Yu If
you look at the sun and then look away from it, certain colours from
the “sun” still overlay the rest of the visual field. Colours do not
belong to subject Nor object but arise in dependence on conditionality.
They do not arise nor exist anywhere but appears as mere appearances and
illusions (but vividly clear)
Manage
Soh Wei Yu Direct
taste of empty suchness transcends mental constructs and is the
termination of linguistic description or the serene coming to rest of
the manifold of named things as described by Nagarjuna.
“Professor Ram Chandra Pandey and Mañju translates it thus : “I pay respect to the best among speakers who, having attained Enlightenment, has taught relative origination (Pratītyasamutpāda) which is no-cessation, no-origination, no- annihilation, no-abiding, no-one-thing, no-many-thing, no-coming-in, no-going-out; being the termination of linguistic description (Prapañcopashamam), it is the good (Shivam) [Ram Candra Pandey & Mañju, 1999, pp.1]. Mervyn Sprung in collaboration with T.R.V. Murti and U.S. Vyas has translated it thus: “Neither perishing nor arising in time neither terminable nor eternal, neither self-identical nor variant in form, neither coming nor going, such is the true way of things (Pratītyasamutpāda), the serene coming to rest of the manifold of the named things (Prapañcopashamam), as taught by the perfectly Enlightened One whom I honor as the best of all teachers.” [Mervyn Sprung in collaboration with TRV Murti and U.S. Vyas, 1979, pp.32-33].”
Manage“Professor Ram Chandra Pandey and Mañju translates it thus : “I pay respect to the best among speakers who, having attained Enlightenment, has taught relative origination (Pratītyasamutpāda) which is no-cessation, no-origination, no- annihilation, no-abiding, no-one-thing, no-many-thing, no-coming-in, no-going-out; being the termination of linguistic description (Prapañcopashamam), it is the good (Shivam) [Ram Candra Pandey & Mañju, 1999, pp.1]. Mervyn Sprung in collaboration with T.R.V. Murti and U.S. Vyas has translated it thus: “Neither perishing nor arising in time neither terminable nor eternal, neither self-identical nor variant in form, neither coming nor going, such is the true way of things (Pratītyasamutpāda), the serene coming to rest of the manifold of the named things (Prapañcopashamam), as taught by the perfectly Enlightened One whom I honor as the best of all teachers.” [Mervyn Sprung in collaboration with TRV Murti and U.S. Vyas, 1979, pp.32-33].”
John Tan "Direct
taste of empty suchness transcends mental constructs and is the
termination of linguistic description or the serene coming to rest of
the manifold of named things as described by Nagarjuna."
If that is the case, y not just b raw in attention or simply cease conceptuality or naked in Awareness then there r also no named things or mental constructs.
ManageIf that is the case, y not just b raw in attention or simply cease conceptuality or naked in Awareness then there r also no named things or mental constructs.
Soh Wei Yu Because
mental construct is not mere gross conceptuality. For example gross
conceptuality may dissolve but the background Witness still seem eternal
and dualistic and very real
Manage
Tan Jui Horng Hello John, as far as I know,
1. We deconstruct to know what the nature of our experience really is. If we don't then we are just like most people living in delusion which inevitably causes greed and hatred. At a certain point if we don't examine and deconstruct we may find ourself clinging to "bare" perception, which is not enough because the empty nature of perception is not realized.
2. We know we are on the right direction... if we check back with the Buddha's discourses? He already did the work so we don't end up with infinite deconstruction, which is what I remember seeing some people comment on the possible downsides of deconstructing experience. There should not be any gross/subtle clinging to the aggregates nor (Buddha forbid) objects that make up our experience. This one should need a strong moment to moment mindfulness and honesty.
3. I don't know actually. There seems to be a lot that can be deconstructed. Does the deconstruction end when we see the aggregates are also empty? As per the heart sutra. But there are still things like "presence", time, etc. I am confused about this.
For your critiques, admonishments, and answers please.
Manage1. We deconstruct to know what the nature of our experience really is. If we don't then we are just like most people living in delusion which inevitably causes greed and hatred. At a certain point if we don't examine and deconstruct we may find ourself clinging to "bare" perception, which is not enough because the empty nature of perception is not realized.
2. We know we are on the right direction... if we check back with the Buddha's discourses? He already did the work so we don't end up with infinite deconstruction, which is what I remember seeing some people comment on the possible downsides of deconstructing experience. There should not be any gross/subtle clinging to the aggregates nor (Buddha forbid) objects that make up our experience. This one should need a strong moment to moment mindfulness and honesty.
3. I don't know actually. There seems to be a lot that can be deconstructed. Does the deconstruction end when we see the aggregates are also empty? As per the heart sutra. But there are still things like "presence", time, etc. I am confused about this.
For your critiques, admonishments, and answers please.
André A. Pais "self (background) and phenomena (foreground) to which characteristics [supposedly] belong are constructs"
That's a great way to put it. There is no possessor of characteristics (beyond the apparent characteristics), nor perceiver of perceptions. There is nothing behind appearances (our eyes), nor beyond them (as a conceptual possessor of said characteristics).
ManageThat's a great way to put it. There is no possessor of characteristics (beyond the apparent characteristics), nor perceiver of perceptions. There is nothing behind appearances (our eyes), nor beyond them (as a conceptual possessor of said characteristics).
Richard Cooper Why deconstruct if the blue sky and green trees are effortless ?
Manage
John Tan Hi Jui Horng,
Thks for the detailed reply, I din expect that
😝. My questions were triggered by the conversations between u, Soh and Andre.
Seeing reality through reified constructs r like attempting to understand wind by stopping moving air.
In the process the mind gets confused that "wind" has it own existent and can stand apart from "moving air".
Deconstruction is simply to fix this issue by realizing that "wind" standing apart is like "rabbit horns" and therefore needs to b seen through. It is empty and non-arisen (by using Buddhist terms).
Soh's expression of "blue sky and green trees fluttering" is to convey the experience free from reified constructs, that is "feeling the moving air" directly.
My question to Soh is he is talking abt the experience, not answering ur question of y no further deconstruction is needed, that is, only the reified construct "wind" needs to b deconstructed, not the "moving air" that is felt directly.
In summary, I m just being a busy body, nothing intense
🤣.
ManageThks for the detailed reply, I din expect that
😝. My questions were triggered by the conversations between u, Soh and Andre.Seeing reality through reified constructs r like attempting to understand wind by stopping moving air.
In the process the mind gets confused that "wind" has it own existent and can stand apart from "moving air".
Deconstruction is simply to fix this issue by realizing that "wind" standing apart is like "rabbit horns" and therefore needs to b seen through. It is empty and non-arisen (by using Buddhist terms).
Soh's expression of "blue sky and green trees fluttering" is to convey the experience free from reified constructs, that is "feeling the moving air" directly.
My question to Soh is he is talking abt the experience, not answering ur question of y no further deconstruction is needed, that is, only the reified construct "wind" needs to b deconstructed, not the "moving air" that is felt directly.
In summary, I m just being a busy body, nothing intense
🤣.
Tan Jui Horng Thank you for your answer John,
how about Andre's "blue expanse, swaying green"? On one hand I feel it
is valid, just that the statement itself, if I don't know that Andre has
valid and good insight and realizations, would also contain reified
constructs (blue and green)?
...or are they actually not constructs?
Expressions of experience in words always perplex me...
Manage...or are they actually not constructs?
Expressions of experience in words always perplex me...
