Realized People Who Smoke Cigarettes? / On Cannabis
Soh

https://www.facebook.com/groups/AwakeningToReality/posts/25196752283272864/?__cft__[0]=AZXBflTLeDk0GWy2yxDMHursCLy0ZFbO88YnPgAl9NeT24-xhWM8yMQKEHih6R58JBYoinw1dOBkoCaT12Jj5CqsRaaR5hvWsy5_HdLViRaQMqfswivm6e-wmTpE2Ef4dGqFkDvDGAXv_SoX8ELumhC2jPDcQ2WmGVQWuNsDKxS3P6tnUc5rpdODJrE9nhmfhKo&__tn__=%2CO%2CP-R]-R

Soh Wei Yu
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But back to the main topic of the OP which has more to do with smoking than about the details of realization.
I am not implying that once one gets to anatta realization for example, then one is free from all habits and kleshas. In AtR anatta realization is just stream entry. Once one gets to non returner, there is no more desire for sense pleasures. They will not have any desire for sensuality, not cigarettes and not even sex (see: Early Buddhism's Model of Awakening). In the bhumi system likewise, Buddhahood is when the twin obscurations of afflictions and knowledge obscurations are totally removed. That is quite an advanced phase of one's practice. All Buddhist traditions, as Acarya Malcolm told me before, including Dzogchen, accepts the elimination of the twin obscurations as Buddhahood. On this point all Buddhist traditions agree, even if the means and methods may differ.
To expand on the anatta and cigarettes part, Zen Master John Daido Loori Roshi smoked his whole life, yet from the book I read I consider him to have clearly realized anatta and total exertion, and I do recommend his books. He died at the age of 78 from lung cancer, so clearly not a good idea to smoke of course. There's another guy, non-Buddhist, Actual Freedom Richard also chain smokes, his experience is quite similar to AtR anatta and total exertion too, but not into twofold emptiness.
I asked John Tan about this smoking thing before over a decade ago, about teachers that realise anatta and still smoke (I don't smoke nor does John Tan just for the record, but I'm curious as to what he says). He said yes, even if one has a clear and deep insight into anatta, it is insufficient to get rid of such habitual patternings. He also said many times before that practice goes on after realization and it is not a finality. Even if you realise Thusness Stage 5 anatta, which he says 'seems like a pseudo finality', or even 6, it is not to be seen as finality nor anything close to Buddhahood yet. (can just be 1st bhumi -- see Buddhahood: The End of All Emotional/Mental Afflictions and Knowledge Obscurations)
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Soh Wei Yu
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There's a stream enterer who also drunk alcohol and was subjected to criticism, Buddha's replies was interesting:
SN 55.24 PTS: S v 375 CDB ii 1811
Sarakaani Sutta: Sarakaani (Who Took to Drink)
translated from the Pali by
Maurice O'Connell Walshe
© 2007
The Pali title of this sutta is based on the PTS (Feer) edition.
[At Kapilavasthu] Now at that time Sarakaani the Sakyan, who had died, was proclaimed by the Blessed One to be a Stream-Winner, not subject to rebirth in states of woe, assured of enlightenment. At this, a number of the Sakyans, whenever they met each other or came together in company, were indignant and angry, and said scornfully: "A fine thing, a marvelous thing! Nowadays anyone can become a Stream-Winner, if the Blessed One has proclaimed Sarakaani who died to be Stream-Winner... assured of enlightenment! Why, Sarakaani failed in his training and took to drink!"
[Mahaanaama the Sakyan reported this to the Buddha who said:] "Mahaanaama, a lay-follower who has for a long time taken refuge in the Buddha, the Dhamma and the Sangha — how could he go to states of woe? [And this can be truly said of Sarakaani the Sakyan.] How could he go to states of woe?
"Mahaanaama, take the case of a man endowed with unwavering devotion to the Buddha, declaring 'He is the Blessed One...,'[1] the Dhamma... the Sangha... He is joyous and swift in wisdom, one who has gained release.[2] By the destruction of the cankers he has by his own realization gained the cankerless heart's release, the release through wisdom, in this very life, and abides in it. The man is entirely released from the hell-state, from rebirth as an animal,[3] he is free from the realm of hungry ghosts, fully freed from the downfall, the evil way, from states of woe.
"Take the case of another man. He is endowed with unwavering devotion to the Buddha... the Dhamma... the Sangha... he is joyous and swift in wisdom but has not gained release. Having destroyed the five lower fetters,[4] he is reborn spontaneously[5] where he will attain Nibbaana without returning from that world. That man is entirely released from... states of woe.
"Take the case of another man. He is endowed with unwavering devotion to the Buddha, the Dhamma, the Sangha. But he is not joyous in wisdom and has not gained release. Yet by destroying three fetters[6] and weakening lust, hatred and delusion, he is a Once-returner, who will return once more to this world and put an end to suffering. That man is entirely freed from... states of woe.
"Take the case of another man. He is endowed with unwavering devotion to the Buddha, the Dhamma, the Sangha. But he is not joyous in wisdom and has not gained release. Yet by destroying three fetters he is a Stream-Winner, not subject to rebirth in states of woe, assured of enlightenment. That man is entirely freed... from states of woe.
"Take the case of another man. He is not even endowed with unwavering devotion to the Buddha, the Dhamma, the Sangha. He is not joyous and swift in wisdom and has not gained release. But perhaps he has these things: the faculty of faith, of energy, of mindfulness, of concentration, of wisdom. And the things proclaimed by the Tathaagata are moderately approved by him with insight. That man does not go to the realm of hungry ghosts, to the downfall, to the evil way, to states of woe.
"Take the case of another man. He is not even endowed with unwavering devotion to the Buddha, the Dhamma, the Sangha. He is not joyous and swift in wisdom and has not gained release. But he has just these things: the faculty of faith, of energy, of mindfulness, of concentration, of wisdom. Yet if he has merely faith, merely affection for the Tathaagata, that man, too, does not go to... states of woe.[7]
"Why, Mahaanaama, if these great sal trees could distinguish what is well spoken from what is ill spoken, I would proclaim these great sal trees to be Stream-Winners... bound for enlightenment, how much more so then Sarakaani the Sakyan! Mahaanaama, Sarakaani the Sakyan fulfilled the training at the time of death.'[8]
Notes
1.
These are, of course, the standard formulations for referring to the Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha. They seem to fit awkwardly into the context here and may have been interpolated.
2.
These terms are used of Saariputta at SN 2.9 (not translated here). Cf. the distinction between difficult and easy progress in VM XXI, 117.
3.
Theosophists and others maintain that rebirth as an animal, after a human existence, is impossible. This view is not supported by the Buddhist texts of any school.
4.
Cf. n. 300. This is the anaagaamin or "Non-Returner."
5.
I.e., not born from a womb by spontaneously arising in another world (in this case the "Pure Abodes" (suddhaavaasaa), where they will attain to final release without returning to this world).
6.
These are the first three of the five lower fetters (orambhaagiya-sa.myojanaani Vol. I, n. 83), i.e., sakkaaya-di.t.thi "personality-view" or belief in a permanent, really existing self; vicikicchaa "doubt" (once the "personality-view" has been shattered, there can be no further fundamental doubt about the Dhamma); and siilabbata-paraamaasa "attachment to rites and rituals" (siila + vata). It is noteworthy that even at this (second) stage on the Path, sensuality (kaamaraaga) and ill-will (vyaapaada), the fourth and fifth fetters, are only weakened but not destroyed. Their destruction is, however, inevitable.
7.
An encouraging message for many! Cf. the end of MN 22, and also the charming image of the new-born calf in MN 34. The Commentary (MA) to MN 22 says such people are termed "lesser stream-winners" (cuulasotaapannaa). This term is discussed in VM XIX, 27. The stress laid here on the importance of faith is interesting in view of later developments such as the Pure Land Schools (e.g., Jodo-Shishu or "Shin-Buddhism" in Japan).
8.
Sarakaani in fact became a Stream-winner at the moment of death.
Soh Wei Yu
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John Tan also wrote before,
"When we develop a negative state, also understand that it takes many many more folds of effort to over it.
Because of this, cultivating good habits and abstain from negative ones although is mundane practice is also crucial.
That is y I always put down all those promoting dwelling in bad habits are also ok type of teachings. They don't know how much more effort is needed to correct it."
Yin Ling asked, "Which kind of dwelling in bad habits is ok?
Like anger but see through anger as empty?"
John Tan replied,
"YL: 'Like anger but see through anger as empty?' 

John: No, that is different. Seeing that is empty does not mean u don't have to deal with anger. It just mean dealing with anger by understanding it's nature.

YL: 'Which kind of dwelling in bad habits is ok?'
John: Like advising it is ok to take cannabis or no need practice type. There is the relax and openness type of practice but that requires deep understanding.
If left alone, the samsaric mind will almost without fail skews towards the negative side perhaps due to the heavier vibration of the material world (sounded new age). It is important to develop good habits from start."
I agree with him about advising against cannabis (unless you have valid medical reasons, and Buddha did recommend use of cannabis for certain types of pain) and often paste this excerpt to people on reddit:
"Dzogchen teacher Acarya Malcolm Smith wrote years ago, "Marijuana impairs short term memory, and that is necessary for mindfulness by definition.", "Everything can be medicine and everything can be poison; but that depends on the skill of the physician.
On the other hand, serious meditation practitioners generally avoid all drugs, as well as being intoxicated on alcohol.
In order to discover exactly how deleterious the effects of herb are on meditation, you would have had to have stopped smoking herb completely for at least a year and then resume it to observe its effects on your meditation practice.
Have you done this experiment?
I have. I can report that the effects of smoking herb on one's meditation practice is definitely not good. It leaves one with a cloudy fog which lasts anywhere from a day to a week depending on how much herb one has smoked and its quality. So now I do not smoke herb, nor do I take other kinds of drugs, all of which in my younger days I have done in large quantities. So, you are not speaking with someone who has no personal experience.
Of course, regular people who do not imagine themselves great meditators may do as they please, but not practitioners.
Of course, you may persist in your folly, that is your choice. But at least I have satisfied my obligation to inform you it is a folly.""
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Soh:

I agree that we should not be judgmental about someone’s wisdom on the basis of whether he or she smokes. Heck, even drinking alcohol — Alan Watts was a known alcoholic but John Tan and I find him to be quite deep in insights and has a lot to share. Unlike many redditor Buddhists, we do not think Alan Watts should be judged unfairly from the basis of a few behaviors. Having said that, John Tan stopped his infrequent/occasional drinking of alcohol for business entertainment many years ago after he found that it has detrimental effects on his qi/wind. 


However. Regarding views about engaging in sense pleasures without desire and attachment, I very much doubt that it is possible, as the Buddha states, "“Bhikkhus, that one can engage in sensual pleasures without sensual desires, without perceptions of sensual desire, without thoughts of sensual desire—that is impossible." (Alagaddūpama Sutta) 


Vajrayana may say use sense pleasure as part of the path and method. That is fine to me but not to be equated with the goal, the elimination of the twin obscurations.


I do not see how without sensual desire even at the anagami level, one can continue to engage in sense pleasures. This is why in the suttas none of the anagamis and arahats engage in sense pleasures including lay anagamis, only sotapannas and sakadagami do. I can cite many passages on this one. This has nothing to do with conduct and vows but about the afflictions driving behaviours. If there is no craving or inclination towards sense pleasures, there can be no impetus to engage in them. Just like if there is no craving for heroin you just won’t use it, unless you are using prescribed opiates for extreme pain. An anagami or arahant may still need to taper off opiate medication gradually when he or she recovers due to physiological reasons of bodily acclimatization (you might have bad withdrawal symptoms otherwise), but there won’t be the slightest clinging, craving or reminiscence for the state of opiates, nor will there be “relapse” as there can be no craving at all. 


Even sex — there is no impetus to do that for someone free from kleshas, it is not my judgement or conjecture but this is just how it is, even in the scriptures it is abundantly clear. Sex for example, by itself is not something really bad, but it just falls off by itself at some point, and arahants are known as completely dispassionate, with no desire whatsoever for life nor death. But that is far along the path, when one is almost fully liberated and awakened. I don’t know of any that has reached that state now, although the last person to attain Buddhahood in recent times is Thrangu Rinpoche (https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2023/11/thrangu-rinpoche-attained-buddhahood.html). Unlike cigarettes and tobacco which is a known cancer-causing radioactive carcinogen (although that may not be known as fact in older times), there is no need to avoid or repress sex. I just told someone yesterday due to a question he asked, “Unless you choose the life of monastic, or have achieved anagami stage, i do not advise people to take up celibate path. It is ok to find a partner and get married. John tan has a wife and two kids.”


I have also read that Nisargadatta visited a prostitute, I think Joan Tollifson and many others said it, including someone else who said “According to Ramesh Balsekar, Nisargaddata used to visit a local prostitute. He was not ashamed or concerned with enjoying sex.” That is fine by my books in the sense that it does not make me have less respect for him, just like Alan Watts’ liking for alcohol, tobacco and women does not make me lose any respect for him and his wisdom. I do not think anybody should be judgmental or lose confidence in their writings and teachings or stop looking deeply into these teachings just because of these points. Of course it is not to say that we are saying smoking is fine. We can accept that smoking is unhealthy and avoid it for our own sake and still not get judgy about those who smoke. Also, there are stories of mahasiddhas who find prostitutes, drink alcohol and so on. But as Acarya Malcolm said, mahasiddhas are just those who have attained at least the first bhumi. (They are not all Buddhas.) 


Sexual desire for example is only eliminated in higher bhumis as krodha/kyle dixon points out (and similarly for all other sensual desires) before, “Āryabodhisattvas on the higher bhūmis overcome sexual interests. Below that you will still experience sexual urges and attraction.”


——





——


Nafis shared a good article:


“Roshi, You Are Drunk”

When a student confronts his famed teacher, Steve Silberman learns the meaning of “intimate practice.” In that moment, he becomes a Buddhist.


https://www.lionsroar.com/roshi-you-are-drunk/

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Nirvana / Nibbana is the Escape (from Suffering)
Soh

Soh:


On how painful sensations stop being a cause of mental afflictions for arahants: 


https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn36/sn36.006.nypo.html


SN 36.6 PTS: S iv 207 CDB ii 1263

Sallatha Sutta: The Dart

translated from the Pali by

Nyanaponika Thera

© 1998

Alternate translation: Thanissaro

"An untaught worldling, O monks, experiences pleasant feelings, he experiences painful feelings and he experiences neutral feelings. A well-taught noble disciple likewise experiences pleasant, painful and neutral feelings. Now what is the distinction, the diversity, the difference that exists herein between a well-taught noble disciple and an untaught worldling?


"When an untaught worldling is touched by a painful (bodily) feeling, he worries and grieves, he laments, beats his breast, weeps and is distraught. He thus experiences two kinds of feelings, a bodily and a mental feeling. It is as if a man were pierced by a dart and, following the first piercing, he is hit by a second dart. So that person will experience feelings caused by two darts. It is similar with an untaught worldling: when touched by a painful (bodily) feeling, he worries and grieves, he laments, beats his breast, weeps and is distraught. So he experiences two kinds of feeling: a bodily and a mental feeling.


"Having been touched by that painful feeling, he resists (and resents) it. Then in him who so resists (and resents) that painful feeling, an underlying tendency of resistance against that painful feeling comes to underlie (his mind). Under the impact of that painful feeling he then proceeds to enjoy sensual happiness. And why does he do so? An untaught worldling, O monks, does not know of any other escape from painful feelings except the enjoyment of sensual happiness. Then in him who enjoys sensual happiness, an underlying tendency to lust for pleasant feelings comes to underlie (his mind). He does not know, according to facts, the arising and ending of these feelings, nor the gratification, the danger and the escape, connected with these feelings. In him who lacks that knowledge, an underlying tendency to ignorance as to neutral feelings comes to underlie (his mind). When he experiences a pleasant feeling, a painful feeling or a neutral feeling, he feels it as one fettered by it. Such a one, O monks, is called an untaught worldling who is fettered by birth, by old age, by death, by sorrow, lamentation, pain, grief and despair. He is fettered by suffering, this I declare.


"But in the case of a well-taught noble disciple, O monks, when he is touched by a painful feeling, he will not worry nor grieve and lament, he will not beat his breast and weep, nor will he be distraught. It is one kind of feeling he experiences, a bodily one, but not a mental feeling. It is as if a man were pierced by a dart, but was not hit by a second dart following the first one. So this person experiences feelings caused by a single dart only. It is similar with a well-taught noble disciple: when touched by a painful feeling, he will no worry nor grieve and lament, he will not beat his breast and weep, nor will he be distraught. He experiences one single feeling, a bodily one.


"Having been touched by that painful feeling, he does not resist (and resent) it. Hence, in him no underlying tendency of resistance against that painful feeling comes to underlie (his mind). Under the impact of that painful feeling he does not proceed to enjoy sensual happiness. And why not? As a well-taught noble disciple he knows of an escape from painful feelings other than by enjoying sensual happiness. Then in him who does not proceed to enjoy sensual happiness, no underlying tendency to lust for pleasant feelings comes to underlie (his mind). He knows, according to facts, the arising and ending of those feelings, and the gratification, the danger and the escape connected with these feelings. In him who knows thus, no underlying tendency to ignorance as to neutral feelings comes to underlie (his mind). When he experiences a pleasant feeling, a painful feeling or a neutral feeling, he feels it as one who is not fettered by it. Such a one, O monks, is called a well-taught noble disciple who is not fettered by birth, by old age, by death, by sorrow, lamentation, pain, grief and despair. He is not fettered to suffering, this I declare.


"This, O monks, is the distinction, the diversity, the difference that exists between a well-taught noble disciple and an untaught worldling."




Mr. AD:


Soh Wei Yu yeah but the second case is not an arahant though. An arahant would have absolutely none of the mental profileration the text implies. There would be no "escape from the painful feeling" because the feeling would not be bothersome in the least. It would be empty mind appearance



Soh:


It is referring to arahats. And buddhas.


Arahants and buddhas have attained the death-free state. They have escaped the cycle of birth and death. It is only liberated and awakened beings that realize and attained that escape.


What did the buddha say?


“

9 Bhikshus, so long as I did not directly know these four elements as they really are, regarding the

gratification as gratification, and the danger as danger, and the escape as escape,

for that long I did not claim that I had awakened to the supreme full self-awakening in this world with

its devas, Mara and Brahma, in this generation with its ascetics and brahmins, its devas and humans.

10 But, bhikshus, when I directly knew, as they really are, thus—the world’s gratification as gratification,

and the danger as danger, and the escape as escape—

then I claimed that I had awakened to the supreme full self-awakening in this world with its devas,

Mara and Brahma, in this generation with its ascetics and brahmins, its devas and humans.

11 The knowledge and vision arose in me:

‘Unshakable is my liberation [5]—this is my last birth. There is now no more rebirth!’””


…


“The pleasure and joy that arise in dependence on form: this is the gratification in form. That form is impermanent, suffering, and subject to change: this is the danger in form. The removal and abandonment of desire and lust for form: this is the escape from form.”



—-


Also, excerpt from https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2018/01/the-deathless-in-buddhadharma.html


“

Loppon Namdrol/Malcolm: “When you have eradicated all afflictions which cause rebirth, this is all the deathlessness you need. No more birth, BAM! no more death.”


Buddha: "SN 43 Asaṅkhata Saṃyutta (1-44 combined & abridged):


    And what, monks, is the not-fabricated (asaṅkhata)? The elimination of passion, the elimination of aggression, the elimination of delusion: this is called the not-fabricated.


    And what, monks, is the not-inclined (anata)? The elimination of passion, the elimination of aggression, the “


—-


Buddha also calls nibbana the escape:


“There is, bhikkhus, a not-born, a not-brought-to-being, a not-made, a not-conditioned. If, bhikkhus, there were no not-born, not-brought-to-being, not-made, not-conditioned, no escape would be discerned from what is born, brought-to-being, made, conditioned. But since there is a not-born, a not-brought-to-being, a not-made, a not-conditioned, therefore an escape is discerned from what is born, brought-to-being, made, conditioned.”


——


On exactly what such an escape is, here is another citation from Buddha, a partial quotation from MN 140:


https://suttacentral.net/mn140/en/bodhi?lang=en&reference=none&highlight=false


“Formerly, when he was ignorant, he experienced covetousness, desire, and lust; now he has abandoned them, cut them off at the root, made them like a palm stump, done away with them so that they are no longer subject to future arising. Formerly, when he was ignorant, he experienced anger, ill will, and hate; now he has abandoned them, cut them off at the root, made them like a palm stump, done away with them so that they are no longer subject to future arising. Formerly, when he was ignorant, he experienced ignorance and delusion; now he has abandoned them, cut them off at the root, made them like a palm stump, done away with them so that they are no longer subject to future arising. Therefore a bhikkhu possessing this peace possesses the supreme foundation of peace. For this, bhikkhu, is the supreme noble peace, namely, the pacification of lust, hate, and delusion.


“So it was with reference to this that it was said: ‘One should not neglect wisdom, should preserve truth, should cultivate relinquishment, and should train for peace.’


“‘The tides of conceiving do not sweep over one who stands upon these foundations, and when the tides of conceiving no longer sweep over him he is called a sage at peace.’ So it was said. And with reference to what was this said?


“Bhikkhu, ‘I am’ is a conceiving; ‘I am this’ is a conceiving; ‘I shall be’ is a conceiving; ‘I shall not be’ is a conceiving; ‘I shall be possessed of form’ is a conceiving; ‘I shall be formless’ is a conceiving; ‘I shall be percipient’ is a conceiving; ‘I shall be non-percipient’ is a conceiving; ‘I shall be neither-percipient-nor-non-percipient’ is a conceiving. Conceiving is a disease, conceiving is a tumour, conceiving is a dart. By overcoming all conceivings, bhikkhu, one is called a sage at peace. And the sage at peace is not born, does not age, does not die; he is not shaken and does not yearn. For there is nothing present in him by which he might be born. Not being born, how could he age? Not ageing, how could he die? Not dying, how could he be shaken? Not being shaken, why should he yearn?


“So it was with reference to this that it was said: ‘The tides of conceiving do not sweep over one who stands upon these foundations, and when the tides of conceiving no longer sweep over him he is called a sage at peace.’ Bhikkhu, bear in mind this brief exposition of the six elements.”



——


Also, here is an excerpt from the original AtR guide: 


“John TanMonday, May 12, 2014 at 6:06pm UTC+08

You are escaping into non-arising and emptiness of "no neck and no pain", trapped in the view of non-conceptual clarity also. What is the purpose of seeing the emptiness of "pain"? To ignore and rest in non-conceptual clarity? "Pain" does not arise? 


...


John TanMonday, May 12, 2014 at 6:11pm UTC+08

Buddha is telling you how to release suffering, free from birth by right understanding. Not telling you to be confused and not know what to do. He sees DO and know what causes re-birth and taught DO, anatta to free us from sufferings. The purpose of telling you there is no pain in the neck so that you don't apply wrong medicine to the pain! It is not in the neck for example. So you are not trapped! Don't keep thinking it is just the neck get it? So that you can "see" clearly the causes and conditions of this empty "pain" in the neck. Otherwise you are not curing the "pain in the neck" because there is no so called inherent "pain" in the neck… You keep pressing and poking the neck cause more problems...lol. Wrong way, wrong understanding, wrong medicine! Get it? Like a person suffered from slipped disc and the big toe always feel numb and pain, the "pain in the toe" is empty, this is not to say there is "no pain", but to tell you DO...so you can correctly see and realize the exact causes and conditions and understand that it is from the disc protrusion that touches the spinal cord. So you can "cure" it …


Soh Wei YuMonday, May 12, 2014 at 6:30pm UTC+08

ic.. so its like seeing four nobles truths.. suffering, cause, cessation and path 


John TanMonday, May 12, 2014 at 6:30pm UTC+08

Yes. Every sensation, experience, mental object, event...whatever appears to arise is so. Now if I go to the doctor and he gives me muscle relaxant and it cures for a while and come back again...what is it telling me?


Soh Wei YuMonday, May 12, 2014 at 6:44pm UTC+08

the root cause is not removed?


John TanMonday, May 12, 2014 at 6:45pm UTC+08

Yes...assuming you learn by trail and error...by experimentation ... You start pressing the neck and press until it swollen...lol...it is not working. Then you go to the doctor it gives you muscle relaxant, it cures and comes back and you visit a Chinese doctor, it gives you medicine that you purge the "heaty" stuff...and it cures and then it comes back again... You begin to know more and more of the dependencies… Until you are able to link and see the stress that associates with the "pain"...the mental factors… When that attachment to projects, the success and failure, the mental attitude of total acceptance and release...and the pain is gone… You begin to understand deeper… The projects, the mental attitudes, the stress, the medicine, the energy imbalances...how they exert into this arising. Then the mental attitude of acceptance of the pain of the raw sensations and the mental attitude of full acceptance of success and failure of the projects… And the pain in the neck...all the karmic activities. When I visited my Chinese doctor, I told him about my neck pain...he was telling me not to earn so much of "$$$"...lol. He was not just joking...but he sees "the link" in a very practical sense. Total exertion of DO is not to make us more dumb...lol. From top to bottom, there is no self, just these activities.”


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