Also see:

• Conventional Validity and Causal Efficacy
• Don't Neglect the Conventional

John Tan

S0h1hao7m4fl6s93orltm  ·
Ok enough of blahing for few weeks, this will be my last post.
For those who conclude mmk denies causal efficacy,
they have unknowingly fallen into the essentialist view of "true existence". Mmk only teaches if cause and effect exist essentially, then casuality is untenable and impossible.
Therefore don't just say "ultimately causality, self and phenomena are empty" but deeply understand:
In anatta, there is action without agent.
In prasangika, action is performed by empty agent.
As such "empty wars" kill, "empty self" suffers, empty self takes rebirth and only empty things have causal relations.
That is y Nagasena can be ferried by an "empty chariot".
Hence, don't neglect the imagined and experience the wonderment of seeing emptiness of the conventional.
An early Happy New Year to all and happy journey to all my dharma friends!

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William Lim
Nice blahing!
More empty blahing in the new year please.

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Yin Ling
So good. Why is the last post

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Geovani Geo
Starting from where the 'usual' man stands: All things are mind. There is not s single event/thing/no-thing that is not in the mind brought in by the senses. So, what are 'things, 'distance', 'weight' or 'mass'? Nothing but a breeze, a hazy appearance, a dream. Nothing. And, what is 'mind' and 'senses'? Likewise, nothing. When the mind is nothing, everything is nothing, beyond 'is' or 'is not'.
"Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing."
~ Shakespeare ~
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Geovani Geo
And:
“At no time throughout the beginningless succession of lifetimes has there ever been an actual birth. There has only been the appearance of birth. There has never been actual death, only the transformation of appearances like the shift from the dream state to the waking state . . . throughout the beginningless succession of lifetimes there has never been any actual experience of transition or going from one state to another, or any actual experience of being located in some other place. This is analogous to the images in a dream.”
~ Longchenpa
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John Tan
Geovani Geo there is no need to worry about birth and death ultimately but that is quite useless if we do not know about the conventional that we r trapped. Even empty words sets the mind spinning and emotional obturations in motion.
We thought all along only truly existence things can initiate action and this is misknowledge and confusion; rather it is empty phenomena that r imaginary and non-existence entities setting things in motion. It is this imaginary entity that is experiencing karma and that is how the karma works and as long as we r not Buddha, it will continue endlessly. For the benefit of u as a sincere practitioner. Anyway I will be away for quite some time. Enjoy the ride and happy new year.
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John Tan
Geovani Geo what u quoted must go hand in hand with this:
Longchenpa on Nihilism
From Finding Rest in the Nature of Mind.
Those who scorn the law of karmic cause and fruit
Are students of the nihilist view outside the Dharma.
They rely on the thought that all is void;
They fall in the extreme of nothingness
And go from higher to lower states.
They have embarked on an evil path
And from the evil destinies will have no freedom,
Casting happy states of being far away.
”The law of karmic cause and fruit,
Compassion and the gathering of merit -
All this is but provisional teaching fit for children:
Enlightenment will not be gained thereby.
Great yogis should remain without intentional action.
They should meditate upon reality that is like space.
Such is the definitive instruction.”
The view of those who speak like this
Of all views is the most nihilist:
They have embraced the lowest of all paths.
How strange is this!
They want a fruit but have annulled its cause.
If reality is but a space-like void,
What need is there to meditate?
And if it is not so, then even if one meditates
Such efforts are to no avail.
If meditation on mere voidness leads to liberation,
Even those with minds completely blank
Attain enlightenment!
But since those people have asserted meditation,
Cause and its result they thus establish!
Throw far away such faulty paths as these!
The true, authentic path asserts
The arising in dependence of both cause and fruit,
The natural union of skillful means and wisdom.
Through the causality of nonexistent but appearing acts,
Through meditation on the nonexistent but appearing path,
The fruit is gained, appearing and yet nonexistent;
And for the sake of nonexistent but appearing beings,
Enlightened acts, appearing and yet nonexistent, manifest.
Such is pure causality’s profound interdependence.
This is the essential pith
Of all the Sutra texts whose meaning is definitive
And indeed of all the tantras.
Through the joining of the two accumulations,
The generation and completion stages,
Perfect buddhahood is swiftly gained.
Thus all the causal processes
Whereby samsara is contrived should be abandoned,
And all acts that are the cause of liberation
Should be earnestly performed.
High position in samsara
And the final excellence of buddhahood
Will speedily be gained.
- Finding Rest in the Nature of Mind (vol 1)
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Geovani Geo
John, yes, the whole story of movement and volition is in the imaginary realm. We where used to look at 'things' and 'events' as if outside, mistake which is the triggering of samsara. Things and events have no basis, no ground. How funny: if we touch the empty lucid factor that leads to the equalness of all appearances, we are unable to find such factor.
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Geovani Geo
"The fruit is gained, appearing and yet nonexistent;
And for the sake of nonexistent but appearing beings,
Enlightened acts, appearing and yet nonexistent, manifest."
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John Tan
Geovani Geo yes therefore understanding imagined non-existence things having no basis and no ground is not yet even half the journey. For authenticatic path and right understanding and "speedily be gained" as longchenpa said, read the text above by him line by line otherwise one falls into nihilism.
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