‎[23/3/16, 8:13:14 AM] Soh Wei Yu: ‎image omitted
[23/3/16, 8:33:22 AM] John Tan: More towards the +A.  Not so much on the -A imo.
[23/3/16, 8:54:55 AM] Soh Wei Yu: Ic..
[23/3/16, 9:42:14 AM] John Tan: Actually what he wrote r all the +A from realizing reality has always non-dual and nothing is or can "presents".   Mere presence is exactly the capacity and the presentation as such no one presenting and nothing presented.  

The mind never fails to create a "ghostly image" behind appearances be it karma, capacity, symbols as something behind hidden.  Is there anything hidden at all or dualistic misperception has prevented us from seeing and tasting the obviousness directly.  If you purge away "ghostly images", then there is only obviousness and aliveness everywhere.  Duality of capacity to give rise to appearances and appearances itself dissolve.  In the realm of suchness, it is altogether a different mode of "perception".  

It is full, direct and intimate living.  Every engagement must be total and complete...and therefore in engagement, there is only the engagement and in the seen, there is only the seen.  You must learn to reclaim your birthright and primordial facility.  Feel fully with entirety body-mind.  Forget self and Smell the air...hear the drum beats of the foot steps, feel the vibration of the moving train...live fully!

[27/3/16, 8:02:59 AM] John Tan: Intensity arises when self dissolves and one becomes a living expression.  Clear, vibrant and spontaneous expression.  U don't think because is replaced by unconditioned intelligence.  When  dealing with our true nature that is free of all artificialities and conventions, it is not only non-attachment but more importantly, the nature of unconditioned suchness is fully expressed and lived.

[27/3/16, 5:48:10 PM] John Tan: There r 2 -A aspects of "emptiness" that stand out quite strongly when contemplating the emptiness of phenomena in my experience.

1.  The non-arising nature of suchness.  There is no true arising, duration and cessation of appearance freeing one from the proliferation of production and cessation.
2. Illusion-like experience

When contemplating the "redness" of a flower and asked "where" is this redness? Is it on the "flower"? Where is the "flower" besides as an empty convention reified as "entity".   Where is the vivid "redness"?  Look at the vivid color...so clear and real but where is it?

Similarly contemplating the dependent origination and emptiness of a beautiful piece of music.  The former note does not meet the current note yet a beautiful music is produced. Where is this music?  Do not attempt to think of its whereabout but "feel" the whereabout...

There will come a time this mirage like experience of phenomena is brought into actual taste upon the immanent presence itself.  Here but never truly here..vividly present but no where to b found...do not think abt it but as a living first person visceral taste of this illusion-like nature of whatever arises...indestructibly vajra not by being powerful, but by being not-real (-A).

[28/3/16, 11:27:27 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Hi Soh, this is a talk given about Kuan-Yin's path to enlightenment. It covers more than half of what I was saying. I'm working on a book and I just found this site.

- James
[28/3/16, 11:28:49 PM] Soh Wei Yu: "Suppose that someone rings a bell. If he then asks if the bell is ringing, one would answer affirmatively. If he were to ask the same question after the ringing had faded away, one would answer in the negative. Here, language is well in accord with what has actually taken place, for the sound of the bell has, in fact, arisen and subsided. But now, if the bell is made to ring again and the question posed is “Can you hear something?” the situation becomes quite different. While the affirmative answer made while the bell continues to ring would still be correct, the same cannot be said of the negative response given when the ringing has ceased. It is true that one no longer hears the bell, but one can still hear. Even if one is aware of no sound at all, it is precisely by using the sense of hearing that one is aware of silence. So it is clear that while sound just comes and goes, the same is not true of our innate nature to hear. This aspect of hearing, which hears transient sounds, but does not itself change, is what is called the innate nature to hear in Buddhist terminology.
The examples given above serve to illustrate the difference between sound and the nature to hear. Sound arises and ceases without lingering for even a moment. It is impermanent. The nature to hear, on the other hand, is always present; it neither arises nor ceases. Even a deaf man possesses the nature to hear, but due to other impairments he cannot hear sounds."
[28/3/16, 11:29:11 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Sounds no different from Advaita discriminating the changeless from the changing
[28/3/16, 11:29:12 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Lol
[28/3/16, 11:29:34 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Or Lzls yi jue bu yi xin cos awareness is changeless and mind is changing
[28/3/16, 11:32:14 PM] John Tan: That is dualistic
[28/3/16, 11:38:56 PM] John Tan: How do u change it to ur understanding?
[28/3/16, 11:52:01 PM] Soh Wei Yu: There is no awareness besides mind, hearing besides sound
[28/3/16, 11:54:37 PM] John Tan: If u continue to think this way, u will not see DO And emptiness.
[28/3/16, 11:58:16 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Oic.. How should I understand it?
[28/3/16, 11:59:21 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Sound appears due to conditions, never truly arise?
[29/3/16, 12:01:35 AM] John Tan: What sort of logic is that
[29/3/16, 12:02:02 AM] John Tan: Appears due to conditions so nvr truly arise?
[29/3/16, 12:07:15 AM] Soh Wei Yu: More like it never attained the status status of independent existence. What is originating in dependence does not exist on its own that could have lifespan, like if two blocks support each other, it's not that two standing blocks are "created". They are only appearing or originating in dependence. When this is, that is, when this is not, that is not. When seeing scenery, the seeing/scenery originates in dependence and could never stand on its own apart from conditions
[29/3/16, 12:08:26 AM] Soh Wei Yu: There is no inherently existing or fixed "standing block"
[29/3/16, 12:13:09 AM] John Tan: Why isn't this orgination?
[29/3/16, 12:14:03 AM] Soh Wei Yu: Origination means it has inherent existence and could sustain its own existence on its own for a period of time before ceasing to exist after some time
[29/3/16, 12:14:26 AM] Soh Wei Yu: There is simply no self sustaining Essence, only dependently originating appearance/phenomena
[29/3/16, 12:15:19 AM] John Tan: First u must know there r many unexamined assumptions
[29/3/16, 12:16:29 AM] Soh Wei Yu: Oic.. What assumptions?
[29/3/16, 12:19:34 AM] John Tan: There can only arising, duration and cessation when an "essence" can b found.
[29/3/16, 12:20:23 AM] John Tan: But u may think u hv gone through thorough enough to know abt essencelessness
[29/3/16, 12:21:57 AM] John Tan: Saying whatever originates in dependence does not originate, abide and cease does not mean u hv understood anything.
[29/3/16, 12:22:31 AM] Soh Wei Yu: Oic..
[29/3/16, 12:24:07 AM] John Tan: The teaching starts with a sincere heart in looking for an essence but can't b found under ultimate analysis though in appearance, phenomena appear solid.
[29/3/16, 12:27:44 AM] John Tan: The first actual taste of the profound teaching of essencelessness is from the insight of anatta.  However the taste is far from mature realisation of the meaning of non-arising and empty nature of phenomena.
[29/3/16, 12:30:19 AM] Soh Wei Yu: Oic..
[29/3/16, 12:30:58 AM] John Tan: So if u do not see essencelessness deep enough, u won't b able to "feel"  essencelessness
[29/3/16, 12:32:45 AM] John Tan: There when someone says a bell is ringing, it only sounds logical conventionally, not ultimately.
[29/3/16, 12:43:41 AM] John Tan: For in ultimate sense, neither bell nor sound can b found when sought.
[29/3/16, 12:43:56 AM] John Tan: And what does that mean?
[29/3/16, 12:44:53 AM] Soh Wei Yu: Bell is labelled based on the sound, the Colours, the function
[29/3/16, 12:44:59 AM] Soh Wei Yu: No bell can be found
[29/3/16, 12:45:36 AM] Soh Wei Yu: Sound is labelled in dependence on hearing, hitting, etc
[29/3/16, 12:46:36 AM] John Tan: Like the example u gave once, these texts I m typing scrolls up and down seem to appear and disappear.  The texts seem to hide below window and when scrolled upward appears to re-surface from below the window.
[29/3/16, 12:47:22 AM] John Tan: But in ultimate sense, there is no text hidden below the chat window.
[29/3/16, 12:48:18 AM] John Tan: But that is in ultimate sense, not conventional sense.
[29/3/16, 12:49:12 AM] John Tan: So in ultimate sense, there is nothing truly arise, abide and cease.
[29/3/16, 12:49:33 AM] Soh Wei Yu: Ic..
[29/3/16, 12:58:15 AM] John Tan: So bringing this into actual taste (as first person), what is this telling u? In anatta, what is it telling u and how it feels like?
[29/3/16, 3:40:51 AM] Soh Wei Yu: In Anatta one is freed from the ghostly image of inherent existence and directly taste the appearance.. Likewise for non arising one taste the nature of appearance as empty clarity free from Essence, coming, going
[29/3/16, 3:41:36 AM] Soh Wei Yu: Anatta tells you there is no ghost or inherent existence to awareness besides seen, heard, smell
[29/3/16, 7:59:02 AM] John Tan: U no need to work?
[29/3/16, 7:59:22 AM] Soh Wei Yu: Need to work
[29/3/16, 7:59:30 AM] Soh Wei Yu: Woke up in the middle of the night lol
[29/3/16, 7:59:45 AM] John Tan: Lol
[29/3/16, 8:02:21 AM] John Tan: Free from the inherent existence of self...not free from inherent existence
[29/3/16, 8:14:35 AM] John Tan: Yes allowing one to directly taste the transience and realize these transience (color, sound, thoughts, sensations, scent) that we shunt away is the very suchness.  So don't look elsewhere for suchness.

Sound, sensations, colors, form, scent...all these transience phenomena...they r like the texts being scrolled up and down, appears to come and go...but in ultimate sense, understand that they do not truly arise, abide and cease.   That is the non-arising and empty nature of suchness.

It is fully understanding these evanescence appearances without  having the need to resort back to a linking essence that is difficult.
[29/3/16, 8:15:53 AM] Soh Wei Yu: Oic..
[29/3/16, 8:16:55 AM] John Tan: There is some true existence hearing nature is the problem...for that is precisely the cause of duality.
[29/3/16, 8:17:07 AM] John Tan: And cause of suffering.
[29/3/16, 8:22:44 AM] John Tan: If one needs to establish "sound" to b "here", to b "now" or to have firm establishment any hearing nature separate from sound....that is stressful, not liberating.
[29/3/16, 8:26:44 AM] Soh Wei Yu: Ic..
[29/3/16, 8:28:16 AM] John Tan: Freedom comes from directly experiencing the empty and non-arising nature of appearances in real time...not needing an Essence ground is the releasing factor.
[29/3/16, 8:41:11 AM] John Tan: The key issue is most do not know the way of essencelessness.  It is directly opposite of "holding"...rather it is just full and unreserved opening...complete welcoming
[29/3/16, 8:45:18 AM] John Tan: Even u after conceptually understood...even after initially taste of selflessness and the insight of anatta, there is no release.  The karmic tendency of holding on to an essence has infiltrated into every aspect of our thoughts, manifested in our every action, imprinted into every cell.
[29/3/16, 8:46:48 AM] John Tan: The body must b opened up too in addition to just dissolving reified mental constructs.

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