Yin Ling’s Three Stages
Soh


John Tan commented “ Like what I said yesterday, it is our nature that no religion or whoever has the monopoly.” (he mentioned that in a group meeting yesterday)


 Yin Ling wrote:


After posting a flurry of dizzying sharings on awakening and random thoughts, I thought I should write properly from my own experience and knowledge, something that is useful for others in the simplest and most direct way. 

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First and foremost, I am of the opinion that awakening is everyone’s birthright no matter religion, race and gender. I am non-sectarian. I think everyone is talking the same thing once you get it. As long as you are human, you have what it takes to wake up. And like how my teacher always said to me from day 1, “There are steps and it can be done if you are willing to do the work, it’s not that hard Yin if you have done medical school.” 

I subscribe to similar views.  

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To me it doesn’t really matter if u have not read the Abidharmma, do not know Pali, do not know any suttas in the Pali canon or not, cannot memorise all the chants, as I am a practitioner, only interested in practise, not a scholar nor a monastic with his/her responsibilities. 

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If you want to diagnose me from my writing, you really shouldn’t because you are not my teacher but if you still want to, please keep it to yourself 🙂 


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Ok. 3 stages I think is crucial and will be a turning point for practitioners to see reality are as below: 

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1) Knowing what awareness is. 


The term awareness is confusing. Everyone’s interpretation of awareness is different.


For me, it is “What is hearing the sound?”


“What is aware of the taste?”


“where does awareness stops and phenomena (e.g. sound) begins? 


The line between awareness and phenomenas (sound, sight, taste, smell, touch, thought) need to be investigated thoroughly until a strong conviction arise.


I will give you the answer straight up as I like being direct. 


The sound is hearing the sound. 

The touch is knowing the touch.

The taste is tasting the taste. 

Sound knows.

Taste knows.

Scenery sees.

The awareness is not separate from the phenomena. It is not located in the head. It is right there intrinsic to each phenomenas. 


When you hear a sound, the sound knows itself. 


However, it is no use for me to tell you the answer, or you memorise the answer and can parrot, because the conviction of this need to arise in your whole being and the mind needs to understand from the subconscious level before your whole perception can change. 


The exercise to arise this insight is to feel each phenomena completely, and investigate where does awareness starts and end. Like in the Satipathanna sutta. Vipassana is very good if you are taught to do it. 

One can take the Bahiya sutta into meditation too if one feels incline.

Or one can just gently inquire where does awareness ends and phenomenas begins.


That is a non-dual insight. 

An insight is something that could completely change how you perceive the world. 


The insight is so powerful that after one sees it, over the course of time things become non-dual automatically. 


It is like how when I when my dad makes his coffee in the morning, I will hear the clanking of the cup from my room and when I hear it, it is as though I am there in the sound, not knowing from the head.  


Ps/ the awareness I am talking about here is not a ‘universal awareness’ which encompass everything and stand apart from phenomenas. No.

The awareness in intrinsic to each and every phenomenas and it’s never the same as phenomenas are never the same. 

NOT ONE big awareness. NOT brahmanic awareness. NOT atman. 

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2) No-self (a quantum shift from 1))


This is a special insight that is known as the dharma seal.


It is a realization that there has never been a self, ever. Always so, always will be.


It is not that awareness and the sound arise together, as one.


But there has only been the sound. 


It is like the Bahiya sutta, “in the seen, only the seen. In the heard, only the heard.”


When this insight arises for the practitioner, there will be a clear understanding that there has never been a self, all phenomena arise and ceases by itself, knowing itself in itself, it is effortless compare to 1) as there is no effort to merge awareness and phenomena. 


Phenomenas has always been no self. Come and go by itself. The knowingness in intrinsic to the phenomena. No doing is needed, No effort to be aware. 

It can be very blissful with no self realization. 


There is another MAJOR turning point here when no-self realization matures, a "body drop" will happen, from then on a new view of reality takes over, practitioner no more see from the viewpoint of a body, the personhood is dropped, there is no more viewpoint, no more centre, there is only the manifestations+knowingness popping up everywhere. 


A sea of knowingness not apart from the phenomena, no self, no centrepoint, no reference point, hence no location, no distance. 


It is most radical. Let go and plunge in to no where 🙂


After awhile, no-self becomes very natural, one don't think about it, don't generate it, but it's just like another ordinary day. 


Ps/

I am of the opinion that it is very hard to come to anatta/no-self without a practitioner understanding what awareness is first. 


In original/ignorant perception, there is split between the self in the head and phenomena outside with strong reification of in/out boundaries, it is very hard to shift perception to no-self without understanding awareness as awareness is often stuck in the head. 


Practitioners might also attempt to remove the self in the head which is not something that I encourage, because it would make something that is not even there in the first place stronger and practitioner might fall into a nihilistic no-self, without liberating realizations. That is frequently seen and wrong view, wrong effort. 


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3) Emptiness


With anatta insight, forms / phenomenas can be still substantial at first. 

Heavy, bright, direct. 

That was my experience. 


However if one receives pointers, continues to practice and investigate the nature of everything, one will come to realize forms now are a coalesce of empty awareness and vivid appearance. It is no more physical. 


There’s two taste to it, the empty taste (absence) and the full taste (presence)


The work now is to fully integrate this two tastes into one taste ( not the mahamudra one taste).


For me personally, a period of time is needed because my mind was swinging between two extremes of empty and full. I believe this will be for most practitioners because we are inclined to see the outside world in a physical way. And now when awareness is known to be intrinsic to these physical things, the mind needs time to get use to this new way of perception. Everything takes on a new nature. This is 见性 (see nature) in mandarin. 


However the integration can be done. Form is emptiness and emptiness is form is realized once a practitioner can directly perceive the coalesce of these two taste. 


Things will lose their ‘thingness’, the mind will not see ‘physical’ anymore but understand everything is like this – vivid yet empty. 


It can be vivid because it is empty.

It is empty because it is vivid.

If it is not empty it cannot be seen.

If it can be seen it must be empty.


This understanding will be clear. 


I took the view of dependent origination again and again and relinquish my old ways of seeing the world for quite some time before the two extremes merge into the beautiful middle way of emptiness, the buddha’s greatest teaching. 


The whole scenery and everything felt will be light, spacious, vivid, empty, like cloud, like space, like mist, dewdrop, rainbow, there yet not there. And it is blissful. More importantly, the mind can rest and liberate. The grasping can slow down and be released. This is the whole point of the journey. 

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I will stop here and not going to go into  non-arising, total exertion / conceptualities, conceptual elaborations etc etc because it will be too much for now. Hope it helps! 


Advanced practitioners pls feedback if you have different opinions 🙂 🙂 Much appreciated.

 

 

 

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    38 Comments


    • Soh Wei Yu
    Author
    Admin
    Yesterday in the meeting with john tan over lunch he mentioned 50% is the penetration of self/Self so with the anatta realisation (and stabilization) thats half done, another 10 percent is mind body drop and the remaining 40% are the cognitive obscurations


    Yin Ling
    Admin
    Soh Wei Yu emptiness of dharmas insight consider within anatta, or the latter 40%?

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    • Mr./Ms. JJ
    How does he come up with this estimation if he hasn't completed the path himself yet?


    Yin Ling
    Admin
    Mr./Ms. JJ soh not gonna over claim, JT not gonna claim, but what I know is both of them are very far along the path lol and JT frequently downplays what he knows and is extremely humble. So we take what we get lol


    • William Lim
    Yin Ling It's time for the yogis in disguise to come out of their closets 🙂


    • Soh Wei Yu
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    Mr./Ms. JJ I don't know how far John Tan is in his path, I know few years ago he had another major breakthrough in terms of overcoming subtle cognitive obscurations. But he didn't inform me he is a Buddha yet so I assume he is still progressing.
    However, even if you have attained the first level of awakening in the Buddhist path, let's say, stream entry (whether in the sravaka path or the mahayana stream entry of first bhumi), you would have known what the goal of Nirvana or cessation is about. Whether you have eliminated all traces of I-me-mine depends on your practice (as explained in Khemaka Sutta).
    This is how a stream enterer is like: "[Ven. Narada:] "My friend, although I have seen properly with right discernment, as it actually is present, that 'The cessation of becoming is Unbinding,' still I am not an arahant whose effluents are ended. It's as if there were a well along a road in a desert, with neither rope nor water bucket. A man would come along overcome by heat, oppressed by the heat, exhausted, dehydrated, & thirsty. He would look into the well and would have knowledge of 'water,' but he would not dwell touching it with his body. In the same way, although I have seen properly with right discernment, as it actually is present, that 'The cessation of becoming is Unbinding,' still I am not an arahant whose effluents are ended."
    — SN 12.68"
    Likewise if you have realisation of twofold emptiness as per first bhumi, you will know what the elimination of emotional and cognitive obscurations are about, but that does not mean you have completed the path in eliminating them which occurs at the attainment of Buddhahood. See my reply to Yin Ling below.


    • Soh Wei Yu
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    Once you touch Unbinding in your body, it means every pore of your mind-body-universe is released, liberated, at peace, with no more grasping at all, no more proliferation, no more appropriation (no relating to any arising aggregates in terms of I-me-mine at all).
    Then truly, in the seen is just the seen, in the heard is just the heard. This insight of anatta as dharma seal may have arisen but the full actualization will be the fetter model arahantship.
    As John Tan replied to someone's question:
    " How is it to see "the world" from an arahant point of view?"
    John Tan, 2009:
    "From the example above, one may be able to extrapolate the experience. For one that has severed self, experience is free, clean, radiance and non-dual. Seen is just seen. Heard is just heard. Radiance all around and free!
    As for "the deathless", I believe Soh has posted you a past discussion on the topic (see http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.sg/.../the-deathless...). I couldn't have put it better.
    "
    Geoff nicely narrated what Nibbana is like here with scriptural sources: http://www.awakeningtoreality.com/.../great-resource-of...
    The Deathless in Buddhadharma?
    AWAKENINGTOREALITY.COM
    The Deathless in Buddhadharma?
    The Deathless in Buddhadharma?

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    • Soh Wei Yu
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    Yin Ling The latter 40%. Actually I think both reified self/Self and phenomena are different forms of cognitive obscurations, but as per the definition in the sutras, cognitive obscurations pertain more to the reified dharmas while emotional obscurations belong more to reified self/Self.
    [9:07 PM, 8/27/2020] John Tan: Yes pretty much agree with what he said.
    [9:40 PM, 8/27/2020] John Tan: But the same insight of anatta must be applied to object, characteristics, cause and effect, production and cessation...which is a more slippery issue. Nevertheless, experientially seeing through self/Self is still most crucial.
    ....
    7 April 2021, John Tan: After stability of direct experiences and insights, he must clear cognitive obscurations to fully open up. Is there externality or no externality? Are there cause and effect or no cause or effect? Existence of no existence if he is into mmk (this is esp imp as existence is one's main grasping).
    ....
    Cognitive obscurations is more than subject-action-object o
    imo.
    ....
    "PATHS TO ENLIGHTENMENT
    What follows is a short explanation of the way Mipam presents the structure of the Buddhist path to awakening. According to him, we can only go so far in the Lesser Vehicle, realizing the lack of a personal self based on its path, but without the Great Vehicle, we will not come to fully realize the lack of self (that is, emptiness) with respect to all phenomena. In other words, those in the Lesser Vehicle realize only part of emptiness (the lack of a personal self) but do not realize the entire scope of emptiness. They hang on to an ultimate foundation of reality (the fundamental elements of reality, or dharmas), whereas there is actually no such foundation. Therefore, according to Mipam, one cannot become a buddha based solely on the Lesser Vehicle path; becoming a buddha is the result of the Great Vehicle. Nevertheless, realizing the lack of a personal self is enough to free us from samsara, because in doing so, we relinquish the obscurations of the afflictive emotions. The afflictive emotions can be included within the “three poisons” of attachment, aversion, and delusion.
    These afflictive obscurations function to prevent liberation, and they are tied in with the apprehension of a personal self. Based on the notion of such a self, we become attached (to me and mine) and averse (to what is other). This notion of self keeps the wheel of samsara rolling, because it perpetuates the distorted framework through which we selfishly act out attachment and aversion, thus sowing the seeds of suffering. Afflictive obscurations have two aspects: a gross, imputed aspect and a more subtle, innate aspect. According to Mipam, the imputed aspects are relinquished on the first “ground” (Tib. sa, Skt. bhūmi) when you directly perceive the suchness of reality. This experiential realization is called “the path of seeing.”
    The imputed aspects of the afflictive obscurations are learned and not inborn like the innate aspects. Imputed aspects involve distortions that are explicitly conceptual, as opposed to the perceptual distortions that comprise the innate aspects. The difference between the imputed and innate aspects can be understood as something like the difference between software and hardware: the innate aspects are embedded more deeply in one’s mind-stream and are thus more difficult to eliminate. Imputed ego-clinging refers to imputing qualities to the self that are not there—namely, apprehending the self as a singular, permanent, and independent entity. This is overcome on the first bodhisattva ground in a direct, nonconceptual experience of reality that is the culminating insight of analysis. Nevertheless, the more subtle, innate aspect of ego-clinging hangs on.
    The innate ego-clinging, as the bare sense of self that is imputed on the basis of the five aggregates, is more difficult to remove. Rather than construing qualities to the self such as singularity or permanence, it is a more subtle feeling of simply “I am” when, for instance, we wake up in the morning. This innate sense of self is a deeply rooted, instinctual habit. It thus involves more than just imputed identity; it is a deeper experiential orientation of distorted subjectivity. Although analysis into the nature of the self paves the way for it to be overcome, it cannot fall away by analysis alone. Rather, it has to be relinquished through cultivating the path of meditation. According to Mipam, there are no innate aspects of the afflictive obscurations left on the eighth ground. However, the afflictive emotions are only one of two types of obscurations, the other being cognitive obscurations.
    Cognitive obscurations are nothing less than conceptuality: the threefold conceptualization of agent, object, and action. Conceptuality is tied in to apprehending a self of phenomena, which includes mistaking phenomena as real, objectifying phenomena, and simply perceiving dualistically. Such conceptualization serves to obstruct omniscience. Based on the Great Vehicle, these cognitive obscurations can be completely relinquished; thereby, the result of the Great Vehicle path culminates in not merely escaping samsara, as in the Lesser Vehicle, but in becoming an omniscient buddha. According to Mipam, up to the seventh ground, the realization (of the twofold selflessness) and abandonment (of the twofold obscurations) are the same in the Great and Lesser Vehicles.
    As with the Great Vehicle, he maintains that accomplishing the path of the Lesser Vehicle entails the realization of the selflessness of phenomena, to see that phenomena are empty. Those who accomplish the Lesser Vehicle path also realize the selflessness of phenomena, because their realization of emptiness with respect to a person is one instance of realizing the emptiness of phenomena. The final realization of the Lesser Vehicle path, however, is incomplete. Mipam compares it to taking a small gulp of the water of the ocean: we can say that those who realize emptiness in the Lesser Vehicle have drunk the water of the ocean, just not all of it.150 The final realization of the bodhisattva’s path in the Great Vehicle, however, is the full realization of emptiness, like drinking the entire ocean.
    - Jamgon Mipam: His Life and Teachings"
    ....
    "There is the self that arises from conceptual reification, seeing through that with anatta insight is entry point.
    There is the self that arises in marketplace, in day to day activities, anatta of that is graduation." - John Tan, 2018

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    Yin Ling
    Admin
    Soh Wei Yu thanks. Clear now. 40% is a huge chunk.
    “Anatta of marketplace is graduation” 😅 JT is in business, Anatta in business is really graduation with honours 🤭







    • Soh Wei Yu
    Author
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    “According to Mahāyāna and Vajrayāna there are two obscurations that prevent us from fully knowing the nature of phenomena. The first is called the afflictive obscuration, which is the fetter of an internal subjective reference point that the self is attributed to, and the second is called the cognitive obscuration, which is everything else that stands apart from our deluded sense of self, so all objects; persons, places, things.
    For some reason these obscurations can be uprooted at different times.” – Kyle Dixon, 2021


    • Soh Wei Yu
    Author
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    I just re-read what Mipam wrote above. Just realised it may irritate some Theravadin followers... but as John Tan said today "Like what I said yesterday, it is our nature that no religion or whoever has the monopoly."
    Anyone can realise this truth. Also, Phena Sutta and Kaccayanagotta Sutta among other pali canon suttas does talk about emptiness of phenomena. Though it is true that this emphasis is more in Mahayana teachings.


    Yin Ling
    Admin
    Soh Wei Yu hope it doesn’t irritate but bring to surface. So it could be worked towards.
    It’s not just Mipham, so many masters say the same thing.












    • Matt Joe Garrett
    When are you going to write a book Yin Ling?!


    Yin Ling
    Admin
    Matt Joe Garrett next life 😂busy drinking bubble tea 🧋🧋🧋


    • Soh Wei Yu
    Author
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    can start compiling your writings.. soon will be like atr guide over 1000 pages 😂




    • Yin Ling
    Admin
    Soh Wei Yu i will refer ppl back to this guide. One is enough 🤣


    • Soh Wei Yu
    Author
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    Some people may not resonate with self enquiry first and may prefer to start with vipassana


    • Yin Ling
    Admin
    Yeah then they will be like me. The first turning point I wrote is at “third path” mctb which is pretty far along.. but I wish to save ppl some time and trouble not sure if can 😂
    It’s only at that point i resonated with thusness stage 4

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    • Pablo Pintabona
    Yin Ling at 3rd Path is where the usual branching-off from standard Theravadish model occurs, in DhO and Kenneth Folk's related groups. In fact, that was even described in Daniel Ingram's own account in MCTB


    • Yin Ling
    Admin
    Pablo Pintabona yeah agree with you. third path is truly a long path and not really a path. Lol. All maps cannot map it well, I truly think with atr right view one can save alot of time.
    Even Ingrams instruction for higher paths is only a few pages.


    • Yin Ling
    Admin
    Pablo Pintabona but Pablo, I instinctively think the vipassana skills developed in first and second path will help mature post Anatta realizations very fast , especially body drop . The minds vipassanic power is there already. I don’t know what you think.?


    • Pablo Pintabona
    Yin Ling "I truly think with atr right view one can save alot of time". So true!
    "Even Ingrams instruction for higher paths is only a few pages". That's also true. I compiled his additional pointers (along a 12 years span) for 3rd Path, 4th Path and Actual Freedom inspired practices here https://danielpostscompilation.blogspot.com/.../blog-page...
    DANIELPOSTSCOMPILATION.BLOGSPOT.COM
    Daniel's Posts Compilation
    Daniel's Posts Compilation


    • Pablo Pintabona
    Yin Ling It wouldn't be wise for me to give an opinion about a topic way above my pay grade 😄. Perhaps Tommy McNally would be the guy who could better answer that


    • Yin Ling
    Admin
    Pablo Pintabona wow so you were the one who’s behind the website? I have visited the website no less than 100 times at least lol also Shargrols 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙇‍♀️🙇‍♀️🙇‍♀️


    • Pablo Pintabona
    Yin Ling thanks! I'm still in debt with this group with the AtR Guide abridged version, done only up to stages 1-4. Hopefully I'll complete it in the next few months


    • Tommy McNally
    Pablo Pintabona I'll respond Yin when I have more time, but I just wanted to thank you for compiling that website and creating an excellent resource for everyone. It's an excellent site and it's very accessible, so thank you for all the hard work! Truly meritous activity!! ❤












    • Matt Joe Garrett
    The world needs it 🔥


    • Geovani Geo
    "Advanced practitioners pls feedback if you have different opinions 🙂 🙂 Much appreciated."
    From zero to ten, I am at 4,795. Should I comment?


    Yin Ling
    Admin
    Geovani Geo go for it Geovani. All experiences matter!


    • Geovani Geo
    OK. Levels of experience are all descriptions of a particular dream of awakening. Seems reasonable that some types of mind have similar dreams when the morning alarm clock rings,but there are a great many number of types of mind.


    • Mr. BK
    Does Bodhicitta play no role in your system? I do not believe it is possible to realize emptiness of phenomena without Bodhicitta. Your progress will be limited to emptiness of the lower bhumis, or no self.

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    Soh Wei Yu
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    Bodhicitta is important. Bodhicitta is not just mundane compassion, lots of non-Buddhists or even non-spiritual, or even total materialists have compassion. Compassion is not the monopoly of a specific group of people (of a specific religion or whether they are spiritual or not). Although, compassion is in fact very important along with the other four immeasurables and does help development and maturation of insight, and should never be downplayed. Personally, I find that compassion does come forth more spontaneously after insights.
    However, Bodhicitta is specifically this, not just compassion:
    "It is true many people mistake compassion, which does not have the force to lead to buddhahood, with bodhicitta, the aspiration to become a buddha to benefit sentient beings." -- Acarya Malcolm Smith
    Bodhicitta is specifically the aspiration for Buddhahood, nothing more and nothing less.
    And how does it relate to realising emptiness? Because realising [twofold] emptiness and the full actualization of that realisation which directly corresponds with the overcoming of the two obscurations which directly translates to omniscience or the total knowledge of the nature of all phenomena completely or the exhaustion of all phenomena, etc etc.... depends first of all on the aspiration that this is what you want to attain.

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    • Soh Wei Yu
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    And personally I have taken the vows and so on ceremoniously and so does John Tan and I believe many others in this group. But more important than that... the crucial point of it is that both John Tan and I do aim to attain Buddhahood as our goal. A true sincere aspiration to awaken fully for the benefit of all IMO is better than people who just went through the motions and ceremony but their heart is not there.. their deep yearning for waking up is not there yet.
    Also, some may bring up the point... does one need to formally recite the bodhicitta vows, the refuge vows and so on... are they important? To me, they are important causes for awakening. However the essence of it is always more important than the formality or ceremonial aspect of it. It is always good to formally undertake these vows in a ceremony under the presence of a great master. If you have the opportunity to do so, then go for it. That itself is meritorious in many ways and plants a strong seed of awakening.
    But we do hear of stories like Bahiya and many others who attained awakening, in fact liberation from samsara as an Arahant, upon hearing Buddha speak of a few verses of dharma, and that was the first time they have even met the Buddha. Does this mean they have not taken refuge? They certainly haven't got the time to formally recite the refuge verses to Buddha before they awakened. But I think they do take refuge in a more fundamental way. I wrote in recent months:
    "
    Soh Wei Yu
    Mr. LZG
    Kyle Dixon's post from years ago: "The true meaning of refuge is recognizing the nature of mind [cittatā].""
    "
    Soh Wei Yu
    Mr. LZG
    The intention is more important than the formality or ceremony.
    Bahiya had very strong intention to rely on Buddha’s teachings to attain liberation. In a sense that is the key of refuge. It is not just a formality but a very strong genuine intention to rely on the triple gems to attain liberation. That is the kind of “taking refuge” one must awaken in oneself. That paves the way to liberation. If one simply attends a refuge ceremony half heartedly, like going through the motions, it is still a positive act that creates a good karmic connection with the triple gems for this life and the next, but may not be as effective as the earnest desire of Bahiya to take refuge in Buddha and his instructions to attain liberation as soon as possible."

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    • Yin Ling
    Admin
    Mr. BK hi Ben, this is not a system, this is just a quick write up on the few stages of insight that I went through and hopefully will help others see hence shortcut the journey. (I hope!)
    I did not put in the others practices which are of course fundamental to Buddhism and goes without saying, including concentration, ethics, devotion, energy practise, reading, contemplating etc etc


    Mr. BK
    Yin Ling I liked your write up and wasn't meaning to single out specifically, just wondering about the AtR system in general since I don't recall having seen Bodhicitta mentioned. I didn't realize y'all incorporate these other aspects of Buddhism as well.


    • Soh Wei Yu
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    Mr. BK There is a chapter on bodhicitta in the AtR guide but I don't blame you for not having seen that cos its overflowing with 1000+ pages

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    36 Comments


    Mr./Ms. BJD
    really enjoy your clarity


    Yin Ling
    Mr./Ms. SB thank you. There are even more subtleties that if I go in would be dizzying and best work with an awakened teacher imo


    • William Lim
    Thanks for the clarity, directness, brevity and more importantly, structure.
    Let's all cut to the chase.
    This is great work and is much needed in the modern world today.
    Keep smoking, keep writing.

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    Yin Ling
    Just felt like writing all one go so that I don’t need to repeat writing many times to ppl 🙂
    This is abit different to ATr structure though coz I didn’t go through I AM.. just intense vipassana .. I can only speak of what I went through so to not mislead. 🙂
    I don’t like too cryptic stuff. It gives me headache. Just personality hehe


    • Mr./Ms. BR
    🙏🙏🙏 Working on it.....


    • Rebecca Mindful
    Yin Ling this writing came from stillness, I know this because reading it took me to stillness
    Thank you 🙏




    • Sam Roff
    Yin Ling Practitioners might also attempt to remove the self in the head which is not something that I encourage, because it would make something that is not even there in the first place stronger and practitioner might fall into a nihilistic no-self, without liberating realizations. That is frequently seen and wrong view, wrong effort.'
    This was a very appropriate passage for me to read. I had that intuition in practice that energy release into the head from abiding in consciousness was re-ifying the sense of self - so when asking the question 'where am I' and orienting into sensations in the head, there is a dissolving which is actually quite pleasant. It feels like a pressure valve releasing energy which dissipates from the body. But that intuitively feels just like more content. The inquiry delves behind that. To whom is that steam valve release effect... whatever.. occurring to. I will continue to drop all content and let go deeper into the mystery with that in mind. ❤


    Yin Ling
    Sam Roff the gate is the senses. Feel into in fully and deeply.
    Smell the flowers, taste the tastes, breath deeply, smell the perfume, feel the touch of the buttocks on the chair, feels all the vibrations in the body, become a fully alive human. Feel the pain, feel the suffering, the frustration, the footsteps, the music. Go into the middle of everything and feel.
    Like dogen says, let a thousand things come to you in realizations. Not you bring yourself to them:)
    The sensation in the head can stay as long as they want to, but when the 6 senses are clearly felt, clearly seen again and again.that sensation in the head cannot withstand such clarity 🙂 because subconsciously the mind will understnd “no self”. That was what A taught me 🙂
    I feel that is why the Buddha taught satipatthana, vipassana and never ask us to focus on the self. ❤️❤️❤️


    • Sam Roff
    I love this. Currently this as a pragmatic approach feels quite challenging. Could be because the mind is still attached to conceptualising and isn't willing to surrender that fully.. something to feel into.. But what's your take on ATR I am Realization first before approaching non-dual? You suggest here to bypass that and go straight toward non-dual investigation of boundaries ect. For me that seems quite challenging as without doubtless I am realisation the mind seems to still latch onto thought and concept too much when doing these investigations.


    • Yin Ling
    Sam Roff
    I didn’t go through that so I dare not say too much coz it’s hard to feel into it without experiencing it. I could see the whole reason for those stages clearly but xp i really shouldn’t comment.
    With ATR many ppl have walked through these stages and it even seem that it’s less disrupting that dry vipassana . Soh and John went through that so it worked
    The above is what I went through, prior to first turning point there was thousand or 2000 hours of noting I think and dark nights .. lol I didn’t want to say that lest ppl give up .. I just point to the results and hope ppl orient to that and save them some time.
    So I always encourage ppl to try inquiry if they are incline first. It seems to have less disrupting side effects from what I see here compare to dharma overground. Everyoen is dark nighting there lol.
    But what A told me is that, certain personality fits certain technique better, and she sees me as someone focus and need to do sthg so she dispense the noting technique which works perfectly for me. She says if she sense someone personality is for more open awareness technique she would dispense that , I do not have that clarity of other ppls mind like her to allow me to guide well.
    This is where a teacher comes in imo, with their own xp and xp from guiding many


    • Sam Roff
    Yess very good point. Thanks for sharing Yin, makes a lot of sense. It gets so nuanced person to person. Was speaking to my current teacher before and it's really individualised. Trusting intuition when in doubt and hopefully getting guidance from a teacher abiding in that territory who can feel into where you're at = money







    • Ng Xin Zhao
    There could be a subtle danger there for awakening is open to all regardless of religion. Yes, being in other religion doesn't automatically makes one unable to awaken (in this life), not like committing the 5 evil heavy kammas.
    However, there's a difference as to what belief system people have from other religions which blocks awakening.
    To awaken, there's a need for right view. And for those people in other faith who cannot let go of the notion of an eternal soul, doesn't that block their awakening into no self insight?
    In my analysis, to awaken, one has to develop the noble 8fold path. And implicit within the noble 8fold path is right view, which contains 4 noble truths, and basically most of the Dhamma. If one accepts right view as the basis to move along the path, that's basically converting to Buddhism already by taking refuge in the dhamma. (implicit in the refuge of the dhamma is taking refuge in the buddha as the teacher of the dhamma and the sangha who teaches and practises it now.) Although outwardly, they may not even acknowledge it, inwardly, they are Buddhist already.
    Especially for those who has awakened and dropped views, basically, they are heirs to the dhamma, part of the ariya sangha, very Buddhist. I understand such marketing to go beyond religion as some people may take it as an insurmountable obstacle.


    Yin Ling
    Ng Xin Zhao I totally understnd you. To me buddhism is a raft .
    But As I look as this truth , there cannot be any monopoly of this truth. This is very clear to me and I cannot say things I don’t believe, it is against what I stand for which is nothing but the truth..
    This is not marketing. I am not a business man lol.
    I have not spoken anything apart from the truth and I won’t say anything I don’t believe or haven’t experience. I’m very rigorous with myself.
    No religion. No race, no gender have any monopoly for the truth. They can see this.
    I stand to be challenged but that person needs to see the truth first.


    • Ng Xin Zhao
    Yin Ling Yes, no monopoly of truth, Buddha said those religions which have the noble 8fold path wouldn't be lacking enlightened ones.
    It's just that the noble 8fold path includes the right view, which when expended upon, basically recreates Buddhism, the core of it, in whatever form they wish to decorate it with, with whatever name they wish to label it. This could be what's happening with the secular mindfulness programmes, depending on how well they manage to convey the noble 8fold path.
    You're coming from the direction of realized to unrealized, I am pointing from another direction, from the point of view of unrealized.
    Some total beginners may very well misread the statement "no religion has a monopoly on truth" as truth is what we wish it to be, don't need to follow the noble 8fold path. Even the Christian doctrine of an eternally truly existing God can be true. There's a truly existing soul to be true.
    I use marketing as it's a manner of presenting the dhamma to others. People don't buy the dhamma with money, they buy it with faith, which produces the drive to practice, then realize. They pay with time, attention, effort (to practice).
    There's some skills to know to teach and present the dhamma too, which means to take into account the perspective of those thinking from conventional truth perspective.


    • Yin Ling
    I can’t be dogmatic lol. All are teachings. I’m grateful to the Buddha, but the dhamma was found by Gotama, he didn’t create it. It was already there.
    Can a non Buddhist realise this?
    Why not?


    • Ng Xin Zhao
    Yin Ling heavily depends on what is defined as non-Buddhist.
    The sutta here states wrong view leads to wrong liberation, right view leads to right liberation.
    Could very well be that someone may just be pointed by an enlightened one and didn't learn much about the dhamma got enlightened. Just like Buddha and the first 5 disciples, or many others who got enlightened with just one teaching, without needing to learn much about the whole dhamma. They might take some time to realize that they actually are Buddhist already, if they started from another religion.
    Could very well be that some Buddhists may have wrong views, so many years of practise still don't bear fruit.
    It cannot be the case of someone who says learnt the Dhamma, attained to stream entry, and still proclaim that another religion is ultimately true, and deny that Buddhism is the ultimate truth. In more concrete terms: affirm an eternal soul vs saying that there's no self.
    SUTTACENTRAL.NET
    suttacentral.net | 502: Bad gateway
    suttacentral.net | 502: Bad gateway


    • Yin Ling
    Enlightenment is ultimate right view 🙂


    • Yin Ling
    Ng Xin Zhao plus, if they are enlightened , 2 fold emptiness, there is no more view.
    The raft is let go off, ok lah
    Let’s go practise


    • Ng Xin Zhao
    Yin Ling raft is still useful if one wishes to teach.


    • Yin Ling
    No lah a stream enterer will never believe in another creator , it’s v hard for them coz they don’t even have a self, create what?
    It’s not just about other religion, it’s about no monopoly.


    • Ng Xin Zhao
    Yin Ling Sorry if there's any disrespect. May you be well and happy.


    • Yin Ling
    Ng Xin Zhao no lah no hard feelings from here lol.
    I still have to stand by my views but you can keep yours too 🙏🏻❤️







    • Mr./Ms. YEH
    gorgeous ❤️
    thank you 🙏
    I’m working on it.

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    • Edited

    • Sredharan Ramakrishna
    Enjoyed reading. Deep as well. 1) awareness easy part - closing eyes during meditation - awareness dominates or so it seems. 2) and 3) still a big leap yonder.


    • Lisette Cardenas-Paris
    This is beautiful! You have a way with your words, I can feel it... please keep sharing about these topics... Thanks! 🙏❤


    • Lisette Cardenas-Paris
    There are still some concepts/ vocabulary I'm not aware of (related to Buddhism) that makes it hard for me to fully understand what you're stating... but even though I'd like to read and learn more about Buddhism I don't want to think that this is necessary for one to awaken... too much thinking/knowledge can be actually a deterrent to the process... isn't it?


    Yin Ling
    Imo it is a balance
    Between
    Reading/listening , contemplation and meditation.
    These 3 need to happen for clear insights to happen.
    Due to being deeply deluded, we are not able to see truth with our current perception. Hence reading the right view of how things are actually and orientate to right view will facilitate progress
    The terms can be a headache unfortunately
    Contemplation and meditation is crucial to integrate what have been learnt.
    So each part shouldn’t be ignored.
    Each person should learn to balance this by themselves , I personally go through periods of studying alternate with deep meditation when I don’t read much at all until whatveee I read has been integrated , this works well for me.
    I also have a teacher who can point the right way so the amount of reading and finding things out by myself is greatly reduced 🙂
    Hope this helps


    • Lisette Cardenas-Paris
    Yin Ling It surely does! Thank you! ❤


    • Mr. RB
    Lisette Cardenas-Paris this is what people have told me about the things I share as well. That my posts are not understandable lol on one hand it can make your writing twice as long because you’ll have to provide a word key… on the other it’s unlikely that to understand one post someone will look up each word they’re unfamiliar with 🤦‍♂️


    • Lisette Cardenas-Paris
    Mr. RB don't take me wrong... I should clarify I got the general idea of what Yin Ling is talking about... I'm just not very knowledgeable about Buddhism and its concepts/terminology so I don't understand every detail on her comments but that's not a big concern for me at this moment since I'm taking one step at a time approach ... I'm a firm believer that when the student is ready the right teacher shows up 😉🙏❤







    • Sredharan Ramakrishna
    Curiosity question: during meditations, being free from thoughts, but with sensations becoming dominant, can you share tips from yr practice.


    Yin Ling
    Sredharan Ramakrishna very difficult for me to advise or give tips without knowing more though. Thoughts is related very differently at each stage of my practise 🙂


    • Sredharan Ramakrishna
    Yin Ling let me say more simply. Sensations arising during meditation - share your views if not too big a query.


    • Yin Ling
    My view now about sensation is .. they self arise from dependent origination, from conditions
    they have intrinsic awareness , the whole field has intrinsic awareness d , not a speck excluded..
    Lean into it it’s empty, not a speck of solidity
    Fluid , clear, empty 🙂
    If u ask me 6 months ago it’s different , hence I wrote out the few stages I went through with awareness in this post 🙂


    • Sredharan Ramakrishna
    Yin Ling appreciate yr sharing - attempting to shift from annoyance, so yr words are useful, thank you. I also watched Frank Yang, mind blowing how he describes his own journey.

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