Like we can put reference frame of road, then chicken crosses the road.

Or reference frame with chicken, then the road crosses under the chicken.

Reference frame with the sun (non rotating), the earth goes around the sun. Or reference frame the earth, the sun goes around the earth. This is not the reason for day and night, but the reason for seasonal changes.

So instead of putting reference frame onto the external reality, there's just reference frame of this body and mind, since the 6 senses are carried by this body and mind. It's like putting on VR and haptic suit. Total immersion, where one is at the same place, but the sense data changes.

My hunch is that it's way more than this. But so far that's the interpretation that I got from your statement. It's also not the first time I heard this. Hor Tuck Loon from WISE said this too.

Yes , almost like that in a way.

Only I feel there is completely no frame of reference.

No Center.

Well you can say everywhere is a Center too.

There’s completely no “I” to fixate upon.

Completely gone.

Groundless.

So it feels as though the whole “world” is fluxing non stop.

When the chicken crosses the road, we will see as though a chicken as static crossing another thing that is static.

But once seen through both are fluxing. Bam bam bam every fraction of second it is just dependent arising , no movement .

It is like you scroll fb on your phone ,

You feel like some news feed coming out from below, but it is not. It is every fraction of a second the screen changes dependently on the data, eye consciousness etc etc. and every moment is a new moment .

Only now it is not just the phone and fb, it is every sensations in the whole world lol

It is crazy

Haha.

The Buddha is the most radical teacher ever

Hence why he doesn’t even want to teach when he became enlightened. Lol

The Buddha is so radical that when he says -no self- even “here and now” is not a self, not something independently existing

The Buddha proposed something even crazier, - there is no now, no here- just this one whole arising. And this whole arising cannot be located and cannot be found.

Lol.

What good fun

It just that the world is like bubbles from rain splashing onto the road, changes too fast, just rest in the impermanence, the suchness of things, without needing to make a base of even here and now to stand in?

Imo, “Cannot be located”

Can actually be experienced very vividly

We can locate sthg now because we have a frame of reference of “self” in the body. So things are there.

Once no-self. The whole contracted energy in the body is hollowed out and pacified.

The whole scenery/sounds/ touch, sensations all pop in and out and whenever it pops in “you” are there.

But this “you” is not an identification you. It’s just this sensation knowing itself.

So it is sort of like neutral sensation of “suchness” nature dancing it’s dependently arising dance. These sensations does not exist lol

One doesn’t feel like a “person” anymore.

Just this whole ping ping ping

Ephemeral sensations that are soo so empty playing out it’s splendour like a show boundlessly

The bodg doesn’t feel more than a cup,

The body sensation not more than a sound.

Equality abounds,

No self anywhere.

Just dependent arising everywhere going about it’s own business

All the sensations is one’s own appearances

Thanks for letting me talk crazily

But I’m reporting literally this is the most literal I can get. Reality cannot be understood

Tree sees itself, is not that tree has a mind which sees itself. Cup sees itself is not like cup suddenly become sentient and got eyes to loop back to see itself. It's just lacking any suitable words that there's no more self, no more referent to say the subject sees object, but ordinary language has this object subject structure, so it's not easy to communicate what you're experiencing using normal language?

Welcome. Thanks for talking crazy. I think it's just crazy if we take it as really the cup is sentient and sees itself. But it's an inherent flaw in language. Am I right? Or maybe the panpsychism people are right, that everything has consciousness?

It’s not sentient.

But it’s the nature of every sensation that dependently arise.

If you look into the buddhas teaching- especially the 12 ayatanas (origin and base) and 18 dhatus teaching in theravada, it has been describe , just the Buddha don’t talk modern like me lol

Basically ear, ear consciousness and sohnd dependently arise and a sound is heard , it is ONE ARISING ,right??

But we normally perceive as - sound ther, then I hear from here, 2 moments of arising

But the Buddha say nope not like that, one arising, all depdenlt arising in one moment

the sound is heard

And something is aware of the sound

We can be sure of that

Something knows the sound

And the Buddha says one whole dependent arising

So how?

Where is the awareness?

This investigation needs to be done until conviction arise

And if we want to refer to a parallel Buddha steaching- the Bahiya sutta when Bahiya heard of the sutta and become an Arahant prior to dying. ..

The Buddha taught Bahiya to practise

In the heard only the heard

In the seen only the seen

Hence if you pair this with the dhatus and ayatanas teaching

In the heard,

It is a whole dependent Arising of ear sound ear consciousness bell air waves etc etc etc

But only the heard.

Only the sound

All package in one

All conditions being totally exerted into producing the sound

So where is the awareness ?

Hehe so I often say sound hears

But it’s not like sound become a human and hear , 2 moments

It is sound intrinsically have sound consciousness in it already

It is the nature of all sensation that it is only ONE arising. (Refer to dhatus and ayatanas and Bahiya)

One arising means - the knowing of the sound is intrinsic already to the sound

It is not like sound there, then I hear from here , 2 moments of consciousness

It is one arising

The sound consciousness and sound is one arising

In the heard only the heard

All sensations have similar nature

Radical Buddha continue to teaches radically if one cares to really understand him

Say light from stars. It had been travelling for years to reach the earth. Before it lands into the eye, there's still light there, but there's no knowing of light from the stars. Indeed, once there's contact, there's naturally the eye consciousness there.

But yes, philosophically speaking, we can say, who can verify that there's light coming from stars without anyone to see the light? Is the moon there when no one is looking? Does the falling tree make a sound in the forest, if no one is there?

Perhaps one can say that the photon and sound wave of compressed air etc are ideals, concepts, which cannot be perceived. Once perceived, there's the light, sound, inherently there's consciousness there. Before perceived, it's more of imagined. The way photon appears to consciousness, it's presentation may not be the same as the underlying thing before it lands to the eye. But no one has access to the photon before it lands to the eye, so this is what Kant might call things in itself. And the Buddhist philosophy might say, it doesn't exist since it's outside the range of the 6 senses. Ok maybe not outside the range of imagination, the mind sense.

Sorry. I think so much, make it so complicated.

No we don’t have access to anything apart from our consciousness and we don’t have evidence for that

And we will never find out because without our cosciisunesd there is nothing

Hence physics always look outside , ignoring the observer which is also part of the deal.

Only when recently they found thjnfs change with observations, they realis sthg is very radical yet not budging from their cherished seat of observer hahaha so I am not v much interested in physics coz I can see how their looking is not gonna go any where

Reality is “you” are also the game

It is just the doctrine of no self, emptiness and dependent origination coming together

Nothing really out there, just our karmic imprints manifesting as all, just our own appearances looking back at us

Only it’s reality

Sometimes the ground will “melt” below me in the park all just a show playing out.