• On non-arising.



    Stian Gudmundsen Høiland
    This sounds rather confused to me. What do you find powerful, Yin?

    Yin Ling
    For me the “mere perception” is powerful. …
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  • William Lim
    Yin Ling so "perception" here means designation?

  • William Lim
    "Perception never really arises, or come into being, it never remains, and therefore it never ceases to be."
    I thought perception arises due to causes and conditions?

    Yin Ling
    William Lim yap ur right. I would say arise due to conditions. Cause make it complicated.
    Like If u need 1000000 conditions to arise one “thing”, and if one of the condition is not there the “thing” won’t manifest, can u say that “thing” actually exist?
    If it exist Where’s u wanna find that thing, in one of the 10000000 conditions? 😏
    Then can u say that “thing” arise?
    Like 🌈 u need sun, u need an eye, eye consciousness, rain 🌧 dust plus so many other conditions for a rainbow to appear.. so where is the rainbow actually? U can point to it? Which condition has the rainbow?
    So Can u say the rainbow “arise”? Or remain ? Or cease ?
    So if u see everything is like such rainbow, it is non-arising.
    Never was there. Just an appearance due to coming together of a bunch of conditions
    Idk if I’m confusing u?

  • William Lim
    Yin Ling I think I get it.
    Every "thing" is a result of conditions, so there isn't really a "thing", not one with inherent existence anyway. The "thing" is just a result of conditions, and there is no "thingness" inside the thing.
    If there isn't a "thing", then there isn't a thing to arise or cease.
    Like that is it?

  • Yin Ling
    William Lim yup 😁😁🫥🫥🫥🫥🫥🫥<—- like this 🤣

  • William Lim
    I think sometimes I just cannot reconcile the words being used.
    Conditions come together to arise or cease "things" mah.…
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  • William Lim
    Yin Ling, great emoticon visual aid!

  • Yin Ling
    William Lim I understand what u mean.
    I contemplated this v long actually don’t understand why ppl say non arising
    It v hard for me to explain but one day I was playing with some images in my mind creating an image of a tent ⛺️ with the 4 sticks holding each other up.. then suddenly I understnd the “slanted sticks” are not really there existing. I can see “slanted sticks” in the exact arrangement of a tent because of 3 other sticks. If there is no 3 other sticks there’s no “slanted stick” in that exact way. Same with other sticks.
    So I took that understanding to everything else. Like a cup. There is no cup. I only see a cup appearing because of so many conditions. There is no “cup” as such. Not even there. My mind put it together so I have a perception.
    Hahahah I am going to confused u now 🤣 until now I still cannot explain how I come to this insight

  • William Lim
    Yin Ling, appreciate that you keep trying to explain the unexplainable... What u describe feels very "total exertion" to me 🙂

  • Yin Ling
    William Lim hahaha very hard actually need ask John tan he can explain better . But usually if one keep investigating somehow the understanding will come.. that’s my xp la.
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