Very well said. There never was a gap, it can't be. It is one whole flow and nothing else. When there is one, there is two. When the one subsides, nothing isn't the one Reality.

Clear transparency of the One Reality also has its problem. An illumination into the non-duality without certain pre-requisite can cause problems. There is always habitual propensities that will again make this experience an object of attachment. It can cause a person to go without sleep as the body is incapable of dealing with this newfound experience. Many have mistaken this to be a heightening of awareness and took it as a natural progression. This is not true. Whenever this happens, know that it is due to attachment. Learn how to let go of everything until a tranquil calmness arise, it has got to do with our thought patterns, there must come this willingness to let go of our body completely, then our thoughts and the experience of presence… completely letting go from moment to moment… the senses and thoughts can be shut by this art of letting go and non-attachment. Total letting go and vivid Presence must fuse into one.

Practice during the waking state till there is no single trace of doubt that there is absolutely no one there, no inner and no outer, just the incredible realness and vividness of the manifestation. The experience of non-dual in the waking state. Witnessing dreams and there is no witness, just dreams is different. Dealing with the more subtle states and pre-conscious propensities require one to master this art of non-attachment, non-action. There is no conscious way of dealing with the more subtle states, just stabilized the experience and allow the momentum to carry us naturally into the dream and deep sleep. Sleep well. :)” - John Tan, 2006

“John: That is not the way… because he cannot cope with his experience of consciousness, unable to let go of that experience that created this illusion… it is no good for his health and X too...

Soh: Oh, I see. But X says she is very awake, lol

John: Yeah.... I am too... but she must dare to die. totally subsides. nothing at all. it is a problem. she must not misunderstand. The Presence experience requires one to know how to feel the great death then one can understand emptiness. and the subsiding of presence in deep sleep is important because it revitalizes. it is not that nothing is known. it is just it is another form of manifestation. when one say that someone drinks in new york, the one in Singapore get drunk. it is non local… not letting one completely dissolved, one will not experience that. and the understanding is always centered. I told you that I have gone through 10 years of insomnia right?

Soh: yea, you said it’s due to some Qi practise? that gone wrong. lol

John: I do not treat that as a stage, I treat that as a problem. I am totally clear throughout, extremely clear. when one enters into meditative stage of presence in dream state. it is not lucid dreaming. it is presence and merging into symbols. like experiencing the sky as you, all those symbols are you. when you meditate for long hours and is able to rest our mind at night, though even sitting. there will come a time that all sorts of symbols appear. children playing. birds flying in the sky. you see faces so clear yet you are aware and sometimes you wonder whether are your eyes open or closed. you are awaring the dreams taking place. but still the same, there is no one awaring but the presence of the dreams. it is not like those described (Soh: descriptions of either lucid dreaming or Witnessing presence in sleep). totally out. see oceans....like flying over the oceans....images taking places. yet there is awareness.... this is due to the manifestation of conditions. but it is non physical but purely symbolics. there is not much differences though. then the symbols will come to an end. the dreams will, there is no story line, just images after images. Random… but quite clear. but it will come to an end.... then all images subsides… completely nothing

Soh: I see. then you wake up ?

John: nope… dreamless. then dunno how long....those symbols arises again. your mind is completely clear. it is difficult to tell you. one can be so attached to these stages that it is so difficult to get out. the only medicine is no-self and emptiness. I think only emptiness can save. Lol. that is completely dissolve even the Presence. Then the Presence does not have to localize.

Soh: emptiness will dissolve Presence?

John: and we will progress. you see, the awareness in all these stages is still a form of centricity. it is a subtle background. awareness is difficult to understand. in fact we can't understand. that is the problem. we can only experience. but most people want to make sense out of this experience therefore they conceptualized. and even with the experience, they subtly fall back to this very fine concept and identify with it instead of just letting the conditions unfold, just it. the unfolding is already it. the entire body become so focused and concentrated… it uses up so much energy that the body and brain already [becomes] numb… one does not realise it. do you know what every practices must have the melting effect?

Soh: you mean releasing bonds? wat you mean melting

John: when you focus chakra… when you visualize, these sort of practices must have the melting effect to dissolve into complete nothings… letting everything unfold… you must later learn how to engage yourself into activities and practice from there. completely engaged. it is especially important after the experience of anatta. after the practice of mindfulness, engage into activities. just know the DO (dependent origination) and emptiness, hold on to nothing. there is no need to hold on to presence

Soh: but isn’t it possible to maintain 'presence' in every moment in life ?

John: if you think there is a need, use no-self and emptiness, then the Presence will speak in its stillness. it is possible. that is due to wisdom. the loosening of the bond. not as a result of effort. means when your attachment loosen, your capacity to 'see' is naturally there. the 'seeing' is the experiencing is the presence” - 2006 Conversation with John Tan

“It is not necessary to maintain witnessing at all. A wrong understanding. After non-dual and with right understanding, only manifestation with right condition is necessary. It's holding on to 'witnessing' that is denying the further experience of our pristine nature. :)” - John Tan, 2007

If it is not causing issues then ok.. just be careful.

Most impt is to give rise to insight.. anatta most impt followed by emptiness after that. Then presence is really spontaneous, without effort and clinging and contrivance.