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While sharing the seven stages with people with I AM realization in reddit, I find that the teachings of mystic Neville Lancelot Goddard is popular in reddit. Neville teaches people to realize the I AM and use the power of Source/Awareness/Consciousness to manifest one's desires through visualization.
His teachings reminded me of a conversation with John Tan back in 2006.
"for buddhism, there is a way of seeing the 'actuality' from moment to moment. It is the path towards enlightenment. :) for some ppl, they have a glimpse of the source but live in the symbolic layer." "bob has dwelled too deep into the symbolic layer and tasted the power of it in relationship to this conventional reality. It is harder for him to understand the second stage as stated in the tozan. :)" "Buddha taught the path of living in reality. The reality is the ultimate reality. Sentient being deluded with forms and names cannot understand the essence of the teaching. This is the only way towards ultimate liberation. It is not about manipulation of a conventional reality. the reality of what bob talk about is the conventional reality. Because they are unable to know the bliss of nirvana, they seek power to control and overcome the conventional reality. Being so, it is difficult for these people to truly understand the teachings. The source that is seen is only as a place for them to tap mystical power over the conventional reality. Not for the purpose of enlightenment. :)" - John Tan, 2006
Also see: Tozan Ryokai's Verses on the Five Ranks
Thusness/PasserBy's Seven Stages of Enlightenment
....
Session Start: Thursday, August 03, 2006
(11:35 PM) AEN: http://simpo.proboards20.com/index.cgi?board=insight&action=display&thread=1154268689
(11:35 PM) (E-mail Address Not Verified) has changed his/her status to Online
(11:36 PM) AEN: Dear Forum,
Xsurf posted: "See deep silence as flow,
See form as emptiness,
See actuality as tendencies,
See solidity as flux."
I like this, but I would say if I were writing this....
"See actuality as potential reality." It is the same, but is using modern terms, and little different twist of the concept involved.
There is a question in all of this that we must ask ourselves. And the question is: "What is more important to us; our reality or the actuality?"
bob
(11:36 PM) John: bob is from where?
(11:36 PM) AEN: simpo
(11:36 PM) AEN: forum
(11:36 PM) John: i mean...he is from which country?
(11:36 PM) John: US?
(11:39 PM) AEN: not sure but not singapore most likely
(11:42 PM) John: bob has dwelled too deep into the symbolic layer and tasted the power of it in relationship to this conventional reality. It is harder for him to understand the
second stage as stated in the tozan. :)
(11:43 PM) AEN: oic..
(11:44 PM) AEN: what u mean by dwelled too deeply into the symbolic layer
(11:45 PM) John: psychic deals with the symbolic layer is similar to the tantric practices.
(11:45 PM) AEN: erm can explain ? :P
(11:45 PM) John: why is jhanas not the same as insight meditation?
(11:46 PM) AEN: jhana is a form of absorption, insight meditation is seeing into reality
(11:46 PM) John: seeing reality is not what Buddha taught. :)
(11:47 PM) AEN: huh?
(11:47 PM) AEN: wat u mean
(11:48 PM) John: Buddha taught the path of living in reality. The reality is the ultimate reality. Sentient being deluded with forms and names cannot understand the essence of the
teaching. This is the only way towards ultimate liberation.
(11:49 PM) John: It is not about manipulation of a conventional reality.
(11:49 PM) John: the reality of what bob talk about is the conventional reality.
(11:50 PM) John: Because they are unable to know the bliss of nirvana, they seek power to control and overcome the conventional reality.
(11:51 PM) John: Being so, it is difficult for these people to truly understand the teachings.
(11:51 PM) AEN: icic
(11:51 PM) AEN: overcome conventional reality by psychic powers?
(11:52 PM) John: The source that is seen is only as a place for them to tap mystical power over the conventional reality. Not for the purpose of enlightenment. :)
(11:52 PM) AEN: oic isit
(11:52 PM) AEN: but hmm i tot bob is already to certain extent enlightened?
(11:53 PM) John: i have told u many times about the first stage and the different dimension of the first stage, he is not in the second stage yet.
(11:53 PM) AEN: icic
(11:54 PM) John: u know the different between tozan five degree of enlightenment and the general 3 stages i told u?
(11:54 PM) AEN: The source that is seen is only as a place for them to tap mystical power --> oh so tats wat tao te ching is saying at the end of the 1st verse
(11:54 PM) AEN: as in, its possibility
(11:54 PM) AEN: hmm yea
(11:55 PM) John: yes. :)
(11:55 PM) John: what are the diff?
(11:55 PM) AEN: which one
(11:55 PM) John: what i told u about the 3 stages and tozan 5 stages?
(11:55 PM) AEN: oh sorry
(11:55 PM) AEN: u mean wat are the difference between the two 'sets' of stages
(11:55 PM) John: yeah
(11:56 PM) AEN: u said the 5 stages is more like.. in terms of engaging in activities?
(11:57 PM) John: can u map the 3 stages i told u and tell me the diff?
(11:58 PM) AEN: 1st stage is I AM, 2nd stage is all is emptiness, 3rd stage is abiding presence, self so
(11:59 PM) John: how does tozan 5 degree map to the 3 stages?
(12:02 AM) AEN: 2nd stage in tozan is the "1.5-2.0" in the 3 stages of presence?
(12:04 AM) AEN: u there?
(12:04 AM) AEN: ll
(12:04 AM) AEN: lol
(12:04 AM) John: no..
(12:04 AM) John: they are exactly the same. :)
(12:04 AM) AEN: huh??
(12:04 AM) AEN: what are exactly the same?
(12:04 AM) John: 1-1, 2-2, 3-3
(12:04 AM) AEN: then what about 4 and 5
(12:04 AM) AEN: lol
(12:05 AM) John: lol...u must understand the first 3 stages first. :)
(12:05 AM) AEN: oic
(12:06 AM) John: the first is the "I AM" and is what that most mystic undergo
(12:06 AM) John: it is always sinking back to the source.
(12:06 AM) John: their understanding is not complete
(12:06 AM) AEN: icic
(12:07 AM) John: even they have experience that the source is everything in a meditative stage, they are unable to live in and fully authenticate it moment by moment.
(12:07 AM) AEN: oic
(12:07 AM) John: only one that has thoroughly understand no-self and emptiness is able to do it.
(12:08 AM) John: they see the phenomenon world as source
(12:09 AM) John: the ultimate level of the first stage is the ground of being and seeing everything comes out from it
(12:09 AM) John: even life and death are from it
(12:09 AM) AEN: oic
(12:09 AM) John: these practitioner will also sink back to the source
(12:10 AM) John: because they are unable to see the source whenever and wherever they are. Though they may say that the source is not lost and is ever present, the actual experience
isn't there.
(12:11 AM) AEN: icic..
(12:11 AM) John: for one that enters the second stage, realness is at the arising and ceasing, nirvana is samsara.
(12:12 AM) John: the realness is at the phenomenal world.
(12:12 AM) AEN: oic
(12:12 AM) John: there is no need to sink back to the source. No I is needed.
(12:12 AM) John: This is true enlightenment. :)
(12:12 AM) AEN: icic..
(12:13 AM) John: this is the stage where zen master always tok about just the manifestation.
(12:13 AM) John: and there is no ending to the experience.
(12:13 AM) AEN: oic..
(12:14 AM) John: the third is the self arising. This is the true self arising as it already undergo the second stage.
(12:14 AM) John: what did the tozan say...
(12:14 AM) AEN: III. The Coming from within the Real:
The Relative within the Absolute [sho-chu-rai]
In this rank, the Mahayana bodhisattva does not remain in the state of attainment that he has realized, but from the midst of the sea of effortlessness he lets his great uncaused compassion
shine forth. Standing upon the Four Bodhisattva Vows, he lashes forward the Dharma-wheel of " seeking Bodhi above and saving sentient beings below." This is the so-called "coming-from within
the going-to, the going-to within the coming-from." Moreover, he must know the moment of [the meeting of] the paired opposites, brightness and darkness. Therefore the rank of " The Arrival
at Mutual Integration " has been set up.
(12:15 AM) John: The Coming from within the Real
(12:15 AM) AEN: icic
(12:16 AM) AEN: which means self arising
(12:16 AM) John: yes...the 'coming' is the self-arising
(12:16 AM) AEN: icic..
(12:16 AM) John: no more 'seeing'
(12:16 AM) AEN: oic
(12:17 AM) John: no more apparent within real and real within apparent
(12:17 AM) AEN: icic..
(12:18 AM) John: apparent within real is the ground being that everything pops in and out that i said. Many taught that this ultimate experience of the first stage is all.
(12:18 AM) John: real within apparent is what no-self and emptiness taught.
(12:18 AM) AEN: oic..
(12:18 AM) John: the 'coming' out of the real is the effortless self arising
(12:19 AM) AEN: icic
(12:19 AM) AEN: then wat about The Arrival at Mutual Integration? lol
(12:20 AM) John: this is the true understanding of the self-arising. :)
(12:20 AM) AEN: 3rd stage not yet true understanding?
(12:20 AM) AEN: or refined understanding?
(12:20 AM) AEN: as in in 4th stage
(12:20 AM) John: only in opposites u see self-arising.
(12:21 AM) John: din u see what i wrote about the un-manifested as the manifestation
(12:21 AM) AEN: oic..
(12:21 AM) John: the stillness as the flow
(12:21 AM) AEN: oh ya
(12:21 AM) AEN: icic..
(12:21 AM) AEN: oh i remember hui neng said something
(12:22 AM) AEN: like, always teach in the other opposite
(12:22 AM) AEN: like if someone say this, u reply with the opposite
(12:22 AM) AEN: something like that
(12:22 AM) John: that is to refine the knowledge...
(12:22 AM) AEN: icic
(12:22 AM) John: hui neng in the first and second stanza are all toking about the source.
(12:23 AM) AEN: which stanza?
(12:23 AM) John: first is the famous one, no dust alight one lah
(12:23 AM) AEN: oic
(12:23 AM) AEN: second?
(12:23 AM) John: the second one is when the 5th patriarch taught him then he said how wonderful.
(12:24 AM) AEN: huh which one :P
(12:24 AM) John: why seek when the source hasn't moved
(12:24 AM) John: why seek when the source is already complete
(12:24 AM) AEN: oic..
(12:24 AM) AEN: hmm cant remember where
(12:24 AM) AEN: second one is 5th patriarch say one?
(12:24 AM) John: i also can't remember
(12:24 AM) AEN: or hui neng say one
(12:24 AM) AEN: icic
(12:24 AM) John: hui neng...
(12:24 AM) AEN: oic
(12:24 AM) John: 5th patriach where got tok like that lah
(12:25 AM) AEN: hahahaah
(12:26 AM) John: the tozan 3 stage onwards is stabilizing only and the importance of vow...
(12:26 AM) AEN: oic
(12:26 AM) John: even when one reaches the 2 and 3 stages, the karmic propensities are still functioning
(12:27 AM) John: why are vows important, one must know the causal causes. :)
(12:27 AM) AEN: what causal causes
(12:27 AM) John: dunno...only buddha knows...lol
(12:27 AM) AEN: har
(12:27 AM) AEN: lol
(12:27 AM) AEN: icic
(12:27 AM) John: still remember i ask u the 4 imponderables
(12:27 AM) AEN: yea
(12:28 AM) John: when one reaches the 3 rd stage, he is only dealing with this pre-conscious karmic propensities
(12:29 AM) John: a normal practitioner will go by self effort.
(12:29 AM) John: not by vows. :)
(12:29 AM) AEN: oic
(12:29 AM) John: vows are not just about compassions
(12:29 AM) AEN: hmm i read ven sheng yen say, only a 8th bhumi bodhisattva no longer need to rely on vows
(12:29 AM) AEN: oic then
(12:29 AM) AEN: cos 8th bhumi immovable
(12:30 AM) John: :) Not everyone can comment about the vows. :)
(12:30 AM) AEN: oic
(12:31 AM) John: making a vow that is indefinite
(12:31 AM) John: u know the consequences?
(12:31 AM) AEN: what consequence
(12:31 AM) John: who knows the consequences besides the Blessed One. :)
(12:32 AM) AEN: but it will lead one towards buddhahood isnt it
(12:32 AM) John: it is only through faith.
(12:32 AM) AEN: huh
(12:32 AM) AEN: oic
(12:32 AM) AEN: without vows, one may become arhant but not reach buddhahood
(12:32 AM) AEN: i tink
(12:32 AM) John: this is the main diff. :)
(12:33 AM) John: the power of vow is a form of faith for the sage level that
(12:34 AM) John: arahat and pratyeka buddha don't know.
(12:34 AM) AEN: oic..
(12:34 AM) John: so one relies on the faith of the buddha's words.
(12:34 AM) AEN: icic
(12:35 AM) AEN: have u taken any vows then? haha
(12:35 AM) John: hahhaaha have not. :P
(12:35 AM) AEN: icic
(12:36 AM) John: u know the different of a 'pratyeka and arahat' and sentient being making a vow?
(12:36 AM) AEN: what is it?
(12:37 AM) AEN: dunno leh
(12:37 AM) John: lol...cannot tell u. :P
(12:37 AM) AEN: actually i heard teacher chen is also asked by master to 'hui xiao xiang da'.. meaning walk mahayana path
(12:37 AM) AEN: oic why
(12:37 AM) AEN: lol
(12:38 AM) John: hui xiao xiang da?
(12:38 AM) AEN: hold on
(12:39 AM) AEN: ????
(12:39 AM) John: ic. :)
(12:43 AM) John: if one person hasn't attained true understanding and started telling ppl "I AM" is the ultimate way towards liberation, is that good?
(12:43 AM) AEN: nope
(12:43 AM) John: why?
(12:43 AM) AEN: mislead ppl?
(12:45 AM) John: until one truly understand why is non-doing and when pre-conscious karmic propensities is fully understood, i don't want to make comments about vows. :)
(12:46 AM) John: only if it comes from the inner selfless arising of that person and that person must make his/her own decision.
(12:46 AM) John: this is very important.
(12:46 AM) AEN: oic..
(12:47 AM) John: because it is an infinite vow.
(12:47 AM) John: it is a forever commitment. :)
(12:47 AM) AEN: icic..
(12:48 AM) John: it has to come from that person himself. I normally do not give ppl any advises regarding this. :)
(12:48 AM) AEN: oic
(12:49 AM) AEN: but eventually everyone will reach buddhahood isnt it
(12:49 AM) AEN: even arhants and pratyekabuddhas will reach buddhahood
(12:50 AM) John: after the 3rd stage until all karmic propensities subsides, there is no diff. When one reaches the 2nd stage, he/she already know what is it all about. :)
(12:50 AM) AEN: u mean vows?
(12:50 AM) John: not vows.
(12:51 AM) AEN: wat is all about
(12:51 AM) John: about the meaning of liberation
(12:51 AM) AEN: icic..
(12:51 AM) AEN: wat u mean by 'there is no diff'
(12:52 AM) John: there is no difference in terms of enlightenment regarding the source.
(12:52 AM) AEN: oic..
(12:52 AM) John: our Buddha's nature remains, nothing can be done at all.
(12:53 AM) John: it is on other matters....hehehe...
(12:53 AM) AEN: oh haha
(12:53 AM) AEN: eh brb
(12:54 AM) AEN: back
(12:54 AM) AEN: on other matters?
(12:56 AM) John: u better sleep...getting late. :)
(12:56 AM) AEN: haha ok
(12:56 AM) John: anyway bob question is quite important for simpo. :)
(12:56 AM) AEN: how come
(12:57 AM) John: it depends on which path he wants to walk. :)
(12:57 AM) AEN: why
(12:57 AM) AEN: wat path
(12:58 AM) John: some ppl doesn't want enlightenment and liberation leh
(12:58 AM) AEN: What is more important to us; our reality or the actuality?
(12:58 AM) AEN: so wat wld be ur ans
(12:58 AM) AEN: haha
(12:59 AM) John: for buddhism, there is a way of seeing the 'actuality' from moment to moment. It is the path towards enlightenment. :)
(1:00 AM) John: for some ppl, they have a glimpse of the source but live in the symbolic layer.
(1:00 AM) AEN: oic..
(1:01 AM) John: sheng and xian, u know what is the diff or not?
(1:01 AM) AEN: wats the diff
(1:02 AM) John: how is xian written in chinese character?
(1:02 AM) AEN: ?
(1:02 AM) John: nope
(1:02 AM) AEN: huh
(1:02 AM) AEN: which one
(1:02 AM) John: xian1
(1:02 AM) AEN: shen xian?
(1:02 AM) John: yeah
(1:03 AM) AEN: ?
(1:03 AM) John: yeah....what does that mean?
(1:03 AM) AEN: xian is immortal?
(1:03 AM) John: human in the mountain. :P
(1:03 AM) John: u think doing what...
(1:03 AM) John: practicing
(1:04 AM) AEN: oic
(1:05 AM) John: as for u, u practice according to ur ren chen and don't get misled.
(1:05 AM) AEN: icic
(1:05 AM) AEN: ok
(1:05 AM) John: bob question let simpo answer. :)
(1:05 AM) John: lol
(1:05 AM) AEN: hahaha
(1:05 AM) AEN: icic
(1:06 AM) AEN: anyway wat different path. one never lead to enlightenment ?
(1:06 AM) John: will lah...just longer...lol
(1:06 AM) AEN: haha.. how come
(1:06 AM) AEN: wat do u mean
(1:06 AM) AEN: so which path is faster?
(1:06 AM) AEN: lol
(1:07 AM) AEN: but bob seems to imply 'actuality' is more important right
(1:07 AM) John: because one is unable to 'see', a lifetime gets wasted. :)
(1:07 AM) AEN: oic..
(1:08 AM) John: bob uses another way to approach the source lah
(1:09 AM) John: ultimately one must go beyond the symbolic layer to come face to face and get authenticated every moment.
(1:09 AM) John: however at the intermediate stage, one might resort to symbols to understand the deeper levels of our consciousness.
(1:09 AM) AEN: icic
(1:09 AM) AEN: by symbols wat exactly u mean
(1:10 AM) John: dreams, science, philosophies, math, religion, psychic....etc
(1:10 AM) John: all these belongs to the symbolic layer
(1:10 AM) John: shamanism
(1:10 AM) AEN: all these can approach source meh?
(1:11 AM) John: psychic goes deeper into the deeper layer
(1:11 AM) John: of course
(1:11 AM) AEN: oic..
(1:11 AM) John: but they will not reach it. :P
(1:11 AM) AEN: reach the source?
(1:11 AM) AEN: oic
(1:11 AM) AEN: bob and simpo practises dream interpretation, and stuff like that
(1:11 AM) AEN: is tat wat u're saying?
(1:11 AM) John: they will come to a point like a raft
(1:11 AM) AEN: oic
(1:12 AM) John: not only that
(1:12 AM) John: reiki
(1:12 AM) AEN: reiki is just a healing practise rite
(1:12 AM) John: visualization...concentration...etc
(1:12 AM) AEN: oic..
(1:12 AM) John: all is to touch the source.
(1:12 AM) AEN: oic
(1:12 AM) John: u think reiki never understand anything about God can heal ah
(1:13 AM) AEN: haha dunnu leh
(1:13 AM) AEN: but seem like anyone can practise reiki?
(1:13 AM) AEN: maybe i wrong
(1:13 AM) John: yeah...it is the sensing of the energy...
(1:14 AM) John: when one understand the consciousness and just the level of no-self, he will know what is meant by qi and reiki
(1:14 AM) AEN: oic..
(1:14 AM) AEN: but i tot qi is accessible to non enlightened ppl? like by practising qigong and stuff like that
(1:15 AM) AEN: hmm even eckhart tolle talk about Qi and stuff
(1:15 AM) John: enlightenment is about understanding no-self and emptiness
(1:15 AM) AEN: he says it is something that connects the unmanifested and the manifested world
(1:15 AM) John: not about tapping energy from the source, told u liao.
(1:15 AM) AEN: oic
(1:17 AM) John: precisely...in no-self, there is just movement, that is the sensation of qi without awakening of prajna wisdom.
(1:17 AM) AEN: oic..
(1:18 AM) John: just like one suddenly enter into a thoughtless state, instead of coming to the awareness that it is the key towards understand our buddha's nature
(1:19 AM) John: one experience some other stuff in a thoughtless state and go the other way.
(1:19 AM) AEN: oic...
(1:19 AM) John: go sleep. :)
(1:19 AM) AEN: haha ok
(1:19 AM) AEN: gd nite
(1:19 AM) John: nite
Session Start: Sunday, August 06, 2006
(12:33 PM) John: anyway u know about the "AMness is God" that i write?
(12:33 PM) AEN: yea i saw
(12:33 PM) AEN: what about it
(12:33 PM) John: that is exactly the "apparent in the real"
(12:33 PM) AEN: icic
(12:33 PM) AEN: ya i remember
(12:33 PM) John: more elaborate description.
(12:33 PM) AEN: oic
(12:34 PM) John: but casino say i missed something remember...i say unless he can tell me what is no-self and emptiness.
(12:34 PM) AEN: hahaha
(12:34 PM) AEN: yea
(12:34 PM) John: lol
(12:35 PM) John: but casino is still maybe 0.25...so don't know the profound teaching of no-self and emptiness...therefore talking about the one mind is dangerous.
(12:35 PM) AEN: oic..
(12:35 PM) AEN: why do u tink casino no longer post?
(12:35 PM) AEN: away or busy?
(12:35 PM) John: most ppl just see the mind as invisible agent.
(12:35 PM) AEN: icic..
(12:35 PM) John: lol...away so affect ur rating?
(12:35 PM) AEN: eh btw longchen today pm me, after i pm him some dzogchen links
(12:35 PM) John:
(12:35 PM) AEN:
Thanks for the link.
For the time being, i think i will stay clear of esoteric practices. Stabilizing in presence is more important. Smile
Actually, realising that 'sense of self is not the doer' will lead one into a state of going with the flow. This going with the flow will lead one into the present moment. However, to be in it most of the time is not easy and takes much courage especially under stressful condition. Under stressful condition thinking mind takes over completely and see the matter at hand as being very important...grasping.
will have a long way to go before stabilizing in presence more fully. This itself is the Dzogchen practice of trekchod.
regards
simpo
(12:35 PM) AEN: no la just wondering
(12:35 PM) AEN: hehe
(12:36 PM) AEN: not too concerned about ratings la.. EH this month i tink will high rating but very troublesome, all the atheist attacking their forum
(12:36 PM) AEN: lol
(12:37 PM) John: lol
(12:37 PM) John: where did u get the simpo reply
(12:38 PM) AEN: by PM
(12:38 PM) John: ic...u wrote to him in pm?
(12:38 PM) John: regarding bob?
(12:38 PM) John: lol
(12:38 PM) AEN: no no
(12:38 PM) AEN: regarding namkhai norbu's internet transmission of dzogchen
(12:38 PM) AEN: i gave him some links
(12:39 PM) John: ic.
(12:40 PM) John: why Dzogchen practice, what he experience is already Dzogchen.
(12:40 PM) John: There is nothing else.
(12:40 PM) AEN: oic..
(12:41 PM) John: yeah...but he knows
(12:41 PM) John: will have a long way to go before stabilizing in presence more fully. This itself is the Dzogchen practice of trekchod.
(12:41 PM) AEN: hehe
(12:41 PM) AEN: icic
(12:43 PM) John: the complete losing of the self is very important, the imageless when clear will lead to the next stage.
(12:44 PM) AEN: oic..
(12:46 PM) AEN: actually they're wrong to say pratyekabuddha is only The Apparent within the Real rite?
(12:46 PM) AEN: lol
(12:46 PM) John: yes yes yes...very good.
(12:46 PM) AEN: haha
(12:46 PM) John: this is what i want to say.
(12:46 PM) John: under estimate the pratyeka buddha.
(12:46 PM) John: lol
(12:46 PM) AEN: lol
(12:47 PM) AEN: so u going to comment in ur post?
(12:47 PM) John: nope...
(12:48 PM) John: if pratyeka buddha is at the first stage, they know not a single trace of nirvana.
(12:49 PM) AEN: hahaha
(12:49 PM) AEN: icic
(12:50 PM) AEN: i tink their definition of pratyekabuddha is probably 'mystics who never heard the buddha'
(12:50 PM) AEN: hahaha
(12:51 PM) John: possible...but the term arhats and pratyekabuddha....i think the e-book, the forest monk that cry also know the importance of anatta (comments by Soh: more on One Mind and nondual, not yet anatta)
(12:51 PM) John: remember he has been pondering why his master said "apparent in the real" is a great danger?
(12:51 PM) AEN: hmm theravada the anatta is very important isnt it?
(12:51 PM) AEN: oic yea
(12:51 PM) AEN: i remember
(12:52 PM) John: all ppl that has true experience and undergone that stage knows its danger and therefore refuse to tok about 'self'
(12:52 PM) AEN: oic
(12:52 PM) John: so no-self and emptiness
(12:52 PM) AEN: icic
(12:52 PM) John: i do not want to tok about One Mind.
(12:52 PM) AEN: one mind = self?
(12:53 PM) John: no...but mistaken to be so.
(12:53 PM) AEN: icic
(12:53 PM) John: there is no attributes that is self like
(12:53 PM) AEN: icic..
(12:53 PM) John: why do we call it self?
(12:53 PM) John: because of its luminosity?
(12:53 PM) John: what about the emptiness nature?
(12:53 PM) John: blind to the emptiness nature, we grasped and hold on to views
(12:54 PM) AEN: icic..
(12:56 PM) John: got to go.
(12:57 PM) AEN: ok cya
The Plotinus website is by Alice, she is a mystic of the Rosicrucian Order. She is Egyptian, if i remembered correct. - Reply
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