Conceptuality
Soh

John Tan wrote:

Ling Yin One of the biggest issue about freedom from all elaborations/conceptualities is the idea of what the Tibetan Buddhism meant by "conceptualities".  They don't actually mean by what western thoughts or how we commonly understand -- a symbolic layer over "something".   It actually meant imputed designation that is closely linked to self-nature. 


So when u hear "conceptualities" always link to self-nature.  That is y whenever explanations r made by Tibetan teachers, they always ended up explaining and relating to self-nature when they explain "conceptualities". 


Even Mipham or Longchenpa I realized they r actually talking about that. I just hope one day this can be made clear by teachers as well as translators as it is extremely misleading to separate "conceptualities" from "self-nature" in these (Tibetan) teachings.

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Luminous Mind and Theravada
Soh

Had a discussion with Theravadins on luminous mind, right view vs eternalism, anatta, etc.

 

https://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?t=42314

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Bodily Transformations After Enlightenment
Soh

 

Sam Balali

sdtnl181hfha72t7a 
If enlightenment is simply what always is, then is the "process" of liberation our bodies and brains synching up with that? Or am I thinking about this in a completely wrong materialist framework?


Yin Ling
Admin
Yup. The mind and body is transformed radically to align with the truth.
It is radical.
Soh Wei Yu
Admin
Session Start: Saturday, January 27, 2007
(11:35 PM) AEN: hi.. wat time u sleeping today?
(11:44 PM) AEN: eh ask u ah isit a common characteristic among characteristics to have a very 'bright' and 'young' look?
(11:44 PM) AEN: for example u look at master chin kung's picture... even tho he is 80 years old now.. he looks like 40s.. master shen kai as well, when he was 70s, he look like 40s
(11:45 PM) AEN: i notice lzls also look v young.. ppl noticed her looks changed after she practised.. when compared to her husband is v different
(11:45 PM) AEN: oh yes and eckhart tolle as well.. he looks much younger than his age.. he also wrote a chapter in the power of now, saying practising the power of now will lead to slower ageing etc...
(11:45 PM) AEN: and say if u dun believe try it
(11:45 PM) AEN: lol
(11:47 PM) AEN: a common characteristic among characteristics --> i mean common characteristic among practitioners
(12:00 AM) AEN: back
(12:01 AM) Thusness: my wife step on my specks...broke
(12:01 AM) Thusness: lol
(12:01 AM) AEN: wahahaha
(12:01 AM) AEN: whats ur degrees
(12:01 AM) Thusness: 850
(12:01 AM) Thusness: lol
(12:01 AM) Thusness: what do u mean by a common characteristics among characteristic?
(12:02 AM) AEN: wah 850 😛
(12:02 AM) AEN: i mean common characteristic among practitioner
(12:03 AM) AEN: oh yes and my friend too.. wait
(12:03 AM) Thusness: can say so. 🙂
(12:08 AM) AEN: oh no i lost my ren cheng account password 😛 wanted to find something
(12:08 AM) AEN: lol wait ah
(12:09 AM) AEN: *ren cheng forum account
(12:15 AM) AEN: back
(12:15 AM) AEN: ?????????,??????????????????????:“???????”??????,????:“????????”???:“????????,?????????????????????????”???,???????????????????????????:“????????”??????????????????:“?????????”???????,???????,?????????????????,???????????????????????????,???????“??”????????????????????????????,???????????????????????????????????????,???????????????????????,????????????????,??????????????????,??????“?”?“?”??,??????“???”,????????????????
(12:15 AM) AEN: -- my friend
(12:15 AM) AEN: btw about the letter..
(12:15 AM) AEN: u wanna email her urself? 😛
(12:16 AM) Thusness: no need lah...
(12:16 AM) Thusness: if got yuan i will meet up with her.
(12:16 AM) Thusness: what about ur friend?
(12:16 AM) AEN: no my friend said he everyone found him look different when he practised
(12:16 AM) AEN: lol
(12:17 AM) Thusness: lol..
(12:17 AM) Thusness: ic
(12:17 AM) Thusness: but that is not the stuff lah
(12:17 AM) Thusness: u do not know what eckhart tolle is toking about
(12:17 AM) AEN: u mean the ageing part?
(12:17 AM) Thusness: yes
(12:17 AM) AEN: oic then wat is it
(12:18 AM) Thusness: in advaita, the body doesn't seem to undergo change
(12:19 AM) Thusness: but krishnamutri did say that his body undergone tremendous transformation
(12:19 AM) Thusness: it is due to the seven factors of enlightenment
(12:19 AM) AEN: oic.. wat kind of transformation
(12:19 AM) Thusness: one of them is the energy
(12:19 AM) Thusness: like what jonls is experiencing
(12:19 AM) AEN: oic..
(12:20 AM) Thusness: longchen should be too unless his work is troubling him
(12:20 AM) Thusness: lol
(12:20 AM) AEN: haha icic
(12:20 AM) Thusness: however when one stabilize his non-duality, his body will definitely undergo transformation
(12:20 AM) Thusness: dancing energy all around the body
(12:20 AM) AEN: oic..
(12:21 AM) AEN: so u mean the energy leads to slower ageing
(12:21 AM) Thusness: not as the thing u said.
(12:21 AM) AEN: no wonder master hsu yun can live until 120 years old 😛
(12:21 AM) Thusness: slow aging yes but not in terms of age.
(12:21 AM) AEN: oo icic
(12:21 AM) Thusness: diet is important
(12:21 AM) Thusness: until one stage u want to eat vege
(12:21 AM) Thusness: but i still eat meat...eheheh
(12:22 AM) AEN: hahaha how come
(12:22 AM) AEN: vege is gd wot
(12:22 AM) AEN: lankavatara ask ppl to become vegetarian leh
(12:22 AM) Thusness: it will help a lot...
(12:22 AM) AEN: oic how come
(12:22 AM) Thusness: yes
(12:22 AM) AEN: then why u dowan
(12:22 AM) Thusness: i got bad karma...lol
(12:22 AM) AEN: oh ya longchen said a year ago he say his diet changed a lot and he no longer eat red meat
(12:22 AM) AEN: and he become much thinner
(12:22 AM) Thusness: but meditative experience tell me that i have to...
(12:22 AM) AEN: ya u shld
(12:22 AM) Thusness: and fasting too.
(12:23 AM) Thusness: a lot of ppl dunno.
(12:23 AM) AEN: wah fasting..
(12:23 AM) AEN: why dunno
(12:23 AM) Thusness: yes
(12:23 AM) AEN: if they experience they shld know wot
(12:23 AM) Thusness: fasting is also important
(12:23 AM) AEN: oic how come
Soh Wei Yu
Admin
(12:23 AM) Thusness: fasting is also important
(12:23 AM) AEN: oic how come
(12:23 AM) Thusness: dunno
(12:23 AM) Thusness: it is just the experience
(12:24 AM) Thusness: perhaps it is this transformation that brought about the relics
(12:24 AM) AEN: icic..
(12:24 AM) Thusness: somehow there is this feeling
(12:24 AM) AEN: that there will be relics? 😛
(12:24 AM) Thusness: a crystal clear feeling.
(12:24 AM) AEN: oic..
(12:24 AM) Thusness: yeah...not that one long for it but the body is going through this transformation especially stabilization of non-duality in all 3 stages.
(12:25 AM) AEN: icic
(12:25 AM) Thusness: in which sleep is most important
(12:25 AM) Thusness: sleep is like a very deep form of samadhi
(12:25 AM) Thusness: also deepest form
(12:25 AM) Thusness: and is especially important for a person that experience non-dual.
(12:25 AM) Thusness: deep sleep is crucial.
(12:26 AM) AEN: icic..
(12:26 AM) Thusness: but till a certain stage it will can reduce to very few hours
(12:26 AM) Thusness: but not what ur lzls is experiencing.
(12:27 AM) AEN: oic..
(12:28 AM) AEN: my master also slept quite little i tink.. 4 hours. but i tink is due to his busy lifestyle
(12:28 AM) AEN: buddha slept the least
(12:28 AM) AEN: 1 hour
(12:28 AM) AEN: lol
(12:28 AM) Thusness: yes
(12:28 AM) Thusness: buddha is different.
(12:28 AM) AEN: did u read about my previous moderator?
(12:28 AM) AEN: namelessness
(12:28 AM) Thusness: 4hrs is about there but it can be lesser
(12:28 AM) AEN: icic
(12:29 AM) Thusness: nope
(12:29 AM) AEN: he say he 4 days don need to sleep also can 😛 lol
(12:29 AM) Thusness: that is bad.
(12:29 AM) AEN: but now due to busy lifestyle he also need to sleep la
(12:29 AM) AEN: wahahaha
(12:29 AM) Thusness: no lah...i m not toking about without sleep
(12:29 AM) Thusness: ahaha
(12:30 AM) AEN: he say other ppl's tiredness can transfer to him
(12:30 AM) Thusness: that is a problem
(12:30 AM) AEN: icic
(12:30 AM) Thusness: it is not a stage that u can imagine now.
(12:30 AM) AEN: oic
(12:30 AM) Thusness: definitely not anyone u know.
(12:30 AM) Thusness: including me.
(12:30 AM) AEN: icic..
(12:31 AM) Thusness: that is that person spiritual development must be at least higher than me...heheeh
(12:31 AM) Thusness: which is quite unlikely
(12:31 AM) Thusness: kekekekeke
(12:31 AM) Thusness: it is at least going through the second round of non-dual
(12:32 AM) Thusness: and after the attainment of transcendental body
(12:32 AM) AEN: icic..
(12:32 AM) Thusness: therefore not anyone u know now.
(12:32 AM) AEN: hahaha
(12:32 AM) AEN: oic
(12:32 AM) AEN: second round of non dual?
(12:32 AM) AEN: wat u mean
(12:32 AM) Thusness: u won't know now lah
(12:33 AM) Thusness: so buddha yes
(12:33 AM) Thusness: not us
(12:33 AM) AEN: icic
(12:33 AM) Thusness: most are not even the waking state of non-dual
(12:33 AM) AEN: oic
(12:33 AM) AEN: isit when buddhahood, 8th consciousness is completely cleared of impurities?
(12:33 AM) Thusness: would be a blessing if one can have insight into true no-self.
(12:33 AM) AEN: icic
(12:34 AM) Thusness: yes
(12:34 AM) AEN: icic.. ya lzls was telling us about it.. and said that is the 6th supernatural power
(12:34 AM) AEN: which a buddha who cleared his 8th consciousness has
(12:35 AM) Thusness: ur lzls said what?
(12:35 AM) AEN: cos just now there was a topic about 6 supernatural powers
(12:35 AM) AEN: then lzls got add in a bit
(12:35 AM) AEN: she also didnt elaborate a lot la
(12:36 AM) Thusness: a topic about 6 supernatural power?
(12:36 AM) AEN: ya
(12:36 AM) Thusness: by teacher chen?
(12:36 AM) AEN: no i tink my master article, then other ju shi read out and share some of their views
(12:36 AM) Thusness: don't tok about supernatural power.
(12:36 AM) AEN: hahahaha
(12:36 AM) Thusness: 🙂
(12:36 AM) AEN: no la we dont encourage that
(12:37 AM) AEN: in fact we also share about this article about buddha forbidding his disciple from displaying powers
(12:37 AM) AEN: and not good to seek powers..
(12:37 AM) Thusness: the 6 supernatural power if possible should be explained as a form of emptiness nature
(12:37 AM) Thusness: in relation to our nature
(12:38 AM) Thusness: and nothing else.
(12:38 AM) Thusness: and in a most correct form.
(12:38 AM) AEN: my master last time ask teacher chen to drop all his powers.. he went to the mountains to find my master, and wanted to challenge him in supernatural powers cos he thought nobody can beat him in supernatural powers, lol.. but my master tell him to drop all of them. cos they can distract wisdom development
(12:38 AM) AEN: icic..
(12:39 AM) Thusness: where got no one can match him lah...😛
(12:39 AM) AEN: hahaha
(12:39 AM) AEN: he thought so.. he said even b4 he knew buddhism he attain all sort of power and thought he was the most powerful already
(12:39 AM) Thusness: ic. 🙂
(12:40 AM) Thusness: if one can stop all these toks, then there is true achievement.
(12:40 AM) AEN: hahahaha
Soh Wei Yu
Admin
(12:40 AM) AEN: no la the point is not to seek powers mah.. lol
(12:41 AM) Thusness: it is always the mind that wants to show.
(12:41 AM) Thusness: and the curious mind wants to go beyond.
(12:41 AM) AEN: icic
(12:41 AM) Thusness: a true attainer will know.
(12:42 AM) AEN: oic
(12:42 AM) Thusness: especially after all the 3 states of non-dual become one.
(12:42 AM) Thusness: even a tick of the mind to be out of what is will bring u out of that state.
(12:42 AM) Thusness: how will he want to do that.
(12:43 AM) AEN: icic..
(12:44 AM) Thusness: to me i would see that supernatural power is important only to understand the further meaning and have indepth experience of dharma.
(12:44 AM) Thusness: like no-self, emptiness and suffering
(12:44 AM) AEN: oic..
(12:44 AM) Thusness: not even in helping others
(12:44 AM) AEN: icic
(12:45 AM) Thusness: and definitely not like a monkey showing ppl. 😛
(12:45 AM) AEN: hahahah
(12:46 AM) Thusness: one should practice until crystal clarity is experienced and later the attainment of transcendental body.
(12:46 AM) AEN: icic..
(12:46 AM) Thusness: that is like the body of bliss.
(12:46 AM) AEN: oic..
(12:47 AM) Thusness: when i say that i disagree in lanka about the vows, i don't mean that taking vows is not important
(12:48 AM) Thusness: what i meant is why is taking vows necessary for one to enter stage 8?
(12:48 AM) AEN: icic
(12:48 AM) Thusness: vows as a compassionate heart for sentient being is okie
(12:48 AM) Thusness: i can understand that.
(12:48 AM) AEN: icic..
(12:48 AM) Thusness: and if that differentiate a theravadin arahat, i can still accept
(12:49 AM) Thusness: but not due to the help of buddha's power one enter into 8 bhumi. 🙂
(12:49 AM) Thusness: there is a reason for it to be said so i guessed. 🙂
(12:49 AM) AEN: oic.. u guessed?
(12:49 AM) AEN: guessed wat
(12:50 AM) AEN: i mean wats ur guess
(12:51 AM) Thusness: i don't think it is necessary...hehehe
(12:51 AM) Thusness: i think sleep is more important 😛
(12:51 AM) Thusness: deep deep sleep
(12:51 AM) AEN: har? lol
(12:51 AM) AEN: icic
(12:51 AM) AEN: wait u say sleep is samadhi?
(12:51 AM) AEN: then whenever we sleep we enter samadhi? lol
(12:52 AM) Thusness: deep sleep...yeah. 😛
(12:52 AM) AEN: oic so actually everyone enters samadhi everyday? lol
(12:52 AM) AEN: like that dun need to meditate liao hahaha
(12:52 AM) Thusness: yeah
(12:52 AM) AEN: i mean to enter samadhi
(12:52 AM) Thusness: unfortunately they don't know...lol
(12:53 AM) Thusness: it is like our nature, we are already buddha
(12:53 AM) AEN: hmm ya teacher chen always say everyone has no problem of letting go one.. cos everyday u fall asleep everything is put aside lol
(12:53 AM) Thusness: just that we don't know
(12:53 AM) AEN: oic
(12:53 AM) Thusness: u have to let go
(12:53 AM) Thusness: and completely let go
(12:53 AM) AEN: icic
(12:54 AM) Thusness: but the experience of witnessing presence without proper guidance will deny one's access to it. 🙂
(12:54 AM) Thusness: poor thing
(12:54 AM) AEN: oic..
(12:55 AM) Thusness: what is the role of conscious mind?
(12:55 AM) AEN: thinks?
(12:55 AM) AEN: lol
(12:56 AM) Thusness: the every conscious mind is always 'doing'
(12:56 AM) Thusness: what about enlightened being
(12:56 AM) Thusness: or a person that enters into noble path lah
(12:57 AM) Thusness: no need enlightened being
(12:57 AM) Thusness: eheheh
(12:57 AM) AEN: oic..
(12:57 AM) AEN: hmm
(12:57 AM) AEN: detached doing? lol
(12:57 AM) Thusness: and what does that mean?
(12:58 AM) AEN: means there is no identification with self?
(12:58 AM) Thusness: they already know there is no-self, what is there to identify
(12:59 AM) AEN: icic..
(1:02 AM) Thusness: what is the role?
(1:03 AM) AEN: its role is functioning in the world? lol
(1:03 AM) Thusness: yes
(1:03 AM) Thusness: but what must it do?
(1:03 AM) AEN: mental and karmic factors?
(1:04 AM) Thusness: nothing
(1:04 AM) AEN: huh
(1:04 AM) Thusness: nothing needs be done
(1:04 AM) AEN: oh i thought u mean why
(1:04 AM) AEN: read wrongly
(1:04 AM) AEN: icic..
(1:04 AM) Thusness: yes but why?
(1:05 AM) Thusness: whatever JonLS said is right but it can't be acheived most of the time. 🙂
(1:06 AM) AEN: what he said?
(1:06 AM) Thusness: do nothing
(1:06 AM) AEN: icic
(1:06 AM) Thusness: absolutely nothing
(1:06 AM) Thusness: i never say he is wrong
(1:06 AM) Thusness: 🙂
(1:06 AM) Thusness: i just said it is the path for non-dual experiencer
(1:07 AM) Thusness: even for him it will be tough
Soh Wei Yu
Admin
(1:07 AM) AEN: icic..
(1:07 AM) Thusness: because the mind can't cope with all its propensities still reacting
(1:07 AM) AEN: oic..
(1:07 AM) Thusness: therefore skillful means are needed
(1:08 AM) AEN: icic
(1:08 AM) Thusness: not for our luminous nature
(1:08 AM) Thusness: but for the propensities
(1:08 AM) AEN: mindfulness is also a skillful means rite
(1:08 AM) Thusness: yes
(1:08 AM) Thusness: even emptiness
(1:08 AM) AEN: ven gunaratana said u can develope a mental habit of maintaining mindfulness
(1:08 AM) Thusness: yes
(1:08 AM) AEN: oic
(1:09 AM) Thusness: so the mind must non-do
(1:09 AM) AEN: icic
(1:09 AM) Thusness: and allow happening
(1:09 AM) Thusness: this is its role
(1:09 AM) Thusness: like christians say just receive grace can liao
(1:09 AM) Thusness: lol
(1:10 AM) Thusness: theirs is by faith, buddhism is by wisdom.
(1:10 AM) AEN: oic..
(1:12 AM) Thusness: so even with all our will and effort and understanding, can we let go completely?
(1:12 AM) AEN: no
(1:13 AM) Thusness: or have we met any spiritual developer that truly able to?
(1:13 AM) AEN: buddha? lol
(1:13 AM) Thusness: yes
(1:13 AM) AEN: oic
(1:13 AM) Thusness: but who else?
(1:13 AM) AEN: how i know lol
(1:13 AM) Thusness: only truly enlightened being can
(1:13 AM) AEN: oic
(1:13 AM) AEN: means wat.. 8th bhumi
(1:14 AM) Thusness: then why sleep can?
(1:14 AM) Thusness: even the witnessing also gone.
(1:14 AM) Thusness: kekekeke
(1:14 AM) AEN: oic..
(1:15 AM) AEN: oh ya u still haven reply me how come u said u dowan to read 9th and 10th bhumi "coz it prevents me from experiencing purely."
(1:15 AM) Thusness: if daily life we can't as u said, then we are still denied of sleep that can, does he progress or retrogress?
(1:16 AM) AEN: retrogress?
(1:16 AM) AEN: if daily life we can't as u said, then we are still denied of sleep that can, --> denied of sleep that can?
(1:17 AM) Thusness: denied sleep that can completely let go
(1:18 AM) Thusness: so retrogress or progress?
(1:19 AM) AEN: back
(1:20 AM) AEN: retrogress
(1:20 AM) Thusness: if we become less attached in the day and hold on to the night where we can completely let go, it is such a pity.
(1:21 AM) Thusness: it is only for truly enlightened being for there is complete letting go all the time that does not make a diff
(1:22 AM) Thusness: we should not immediate the external forms
(1:22 AM) AEN: back
(1:22 AM) AEN: icic..
(1:23 AM) Thusness: for non-dual experiencer where there is complete letting go of the illusionary self, there is tremendous progress and if night they are able to, is there real progress?
(1:24 AM) AEN: icic..
(1:24 AM) AEN: ooh
(1:24 AM) AEN: progress
(1:24 AM) Thusness: then they complete the first cycle. 🙂
(1:24 AM) AEN: what u mean by first cycle
(1:25 AM) Thusness: almost 'be' in all 3 stages (waking, dream, deep sleep)
(1:25 AM) AEN: oic
(1:25 AM) AEN: wat u mean by cycles
(1:25 AM) Thusness: when u have a very deep sleep, what happened next morning?
(1:25 AM) AEN: very awake?
(1:25 AM) Thusness: what else?
(1:25 AM) AEN: mind is clear?
(1:25 AM) AEN: dunno
(1:25 AM) Thusness: continue... right
(1:26 AM) AEN: the mind becomes less active?
(1:26 AM) Thusness: awake, clear, fresh, energetic, vibrant
(1:26 AM) AEN: icic
(1:26 AM) Thusness: aren't that the seven factors?
(1:26 AM) AEN: oic..
(1:26 AM) AEN: ya
(1:27 AM) Thusness: for a non-dual experiencer, the next day is even so.
(1:27 AM) Thusness: the intensity is even more fantastic
(1:27 AM) AEN: icic..
(1:27 AM) Thusness: if this is continuously sustained, will the sleep naturally be shortened?
(1:28 AM) AEN: ya
(1:28 AM) Thusness: isn't it natural?
(1:28 AM) AEN: yes
(1:28 AM) AEN: icic
(1:28 AM) Thusness: isn't the seven factors of enlightenment maintained?
(1:28 AM) AEN: ya
(1:28 AM) Thusness: so know that what is right and correctly discerned.
(1:28 AM) AEN: oic..
(1:29 AM) Thusness: buddha's depth of clarity is unsurpassed
(1:29 AM) AEN: icic..
(1:29 AM) Thusness: we cannot compare one that has reached that stage of clarity
(1:29 AM) AEN: o ya my shi fu also said if u shi shui fei shui next day u will wake up more refresh and clear
(1:30 AM) AEN: oic
(1:30 AM) Thusness: but that must be taught correctly
(1:30 AM) Thusness: first go into deep sleep
(1:30 AM) AEN: icic
(1:30 AM) Thusness: this cannot be misunderstood
(1:30 AM) AEN: oic
Soh Wei Yu
Admin
(1:30 AM) Thusness: it will lead to wrong misunderstanding
(1:31 AM) Thusness: thinking that one has achieved certain stage
(1:31 AM) Thusness: in fact that is a retrogress.
(1:31 AM) AEN: icic
(1:31 AM) Thusness: our pristine nature has given us the grace to completely let go, to return, to be original
(1:31 AM) Thusness: our propensities prevents the seeing
(1:32 AM) AEN: oic
(1:32 AM) Thusness: but the effect of renewal is there.
(1:32 AM) Thusness: a person is unable to 'see' with at the conscious level.
(1:32 AM) Thusness: but denying it is ignorance.
(1:32 AM) AEN: icic..
(1:33 AM) Thusness: not a million in one can completely let go.
(1:33 AM) Thusness: yet we denied ourselves the only time that we can. 🙂
(1:33 AM) Thusness: this has to be understood.
(1:33 AM) AEN: icic..
(1:33 AM) Thusness: one in a million...hehee
(1:33 AM) Thusness: opposite
(1:33 AM) Thusness: ekekeke
(1:34 AM) AEN: wahahaha
(1:34 AM) Thusness: 😛
(1:34 AM) Thusness: from day one till now whether u tok about replacing sleep with meditation, i told u no.
(1:35 AM) AEN: icic..
(1:35 AM) Thusness: u must know that it is no compare.
(1:35 AM) Thusness: just that i din tell u why.
(1:35 AM) AEN: oic..
(1:35 AM) Thusness: it is especially important for non dual practitioner.
(1:35 AM) AEN: icic..
(1:36 AM) Thusness: but due to the presence and new found clarity, a person that experience stage 1-3 might face this problem.
(1:36 AM) AEN: oic..
(1:36 AM) Thusness: not to be misled and misinterpret.
(1:36 AM) AEN: icic
(1:37 AM) Thusness: i have always told u to measure in terms of clarity, vitality and luminosity
(1:37 AM) Thusness: or the seven factors of enlightenment
(1:37 AM) AEN: oic..
(1:37 AM) Thusness: that can be used as a form of measurement
(1:38 AM) AEN: icic
(1:41 AM) Thusness: i got to go liao
(1:41 AM) Thusness: take care. 🙂











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