I would like to announce two things:

1) The Awakening to Reality Practice Guide by Nafis Rahman: https://app.box.com/s/zc0suu4dil01xbgirm2r0rmnzegxaitq

2) AtR Guide - abridged version by Pablo Pintabona [partially done, halfway done for Stage 5]: https://atr-abridgedguide.blogspot.com/2021/11/this-is-shortened-version-of-complete.html

I would like to thank these two individuals for their great and compassionate effort to make these compilations. I trust it will be of great benefit for spiritual aspirants who find benefit in the AtR materials.

 John Astin's posts focuses on pointing out the seamlessness of anatta and dynamicity of presence.

https://www.johnastin.com/blog/2020/2/23/reality-drinking-itself-1

Reality, Drinking Itself

All there is, is experience.

Feel the reality of this, the undeniable fact that you can never, ever find anything outside of experience. Let it sink in, the reality that experience is all there ever is. Go “inside” of what you think of as yourself and what do you find there? Experience. Go “outside” of what you think of as yourself and you find exactly the same thing. Experience.

Now, within this field of experience, it may feel as if there are two separate things happening—that which is being experienced and the one experiencing it. But in reality, both the apparent subject (self) and object (other), are nothing other than an ever-changing, kaleidoscopic dance of experiencing.

And so when we say that “we” are having an experience of some “thing,” what we’re really saying is that experience is experiencing itself. In every instant, no matter how we might be describing it, all that’s ever happening is that experience is tasting itself, drinking itself, feasting on itself. Feel this, the way in which experience is constantly exploring itself, ever curious about the countless forms it takes each instant.

Drink in the richness, the luscious sensuality of it all. Enjoy this exquisite dance of life savoring itself in all its many forms.

https://www.johnastin.com/blog/2019/3/23/the-painting-that-is-your-life

THE PAINTING THAT IS YOUR LIFE
Imagine that the whole universe consists of a single painting and that this painting is exactly whatever you are presently viewing. That’s it; the entirety of reality right there, present as whatever is being seen, whatever is being heard, whatever is being experienced. That’s it. There is nothing else to see, no other painting to experience, no other painting that could ever be experienced. Nope. There is just this, this single, solitary painting, the painting that is your life…

But this painting of reality is unlike any you've ever encountered for it’s not just sitting there, static and unmoving. No, this painting is alive. It is in a state of constant flux; the images moving and dancing, transforming themselves moment-by-moment into something else. Take a look… how is the painting of your life appearing right now? And what about now? It's different, isn’t it? Every instant the painting shifts, even if in the subtlest of ways...

And what about us, the supposed viewer of the painting? It turns out that we're not actually outside of it, viewing the painting as if it were some object apart from us. No we, the apparent viewers, are actually an intrinsic, inseparable part of the painting itself. The seer of the painting is also in the painting. Remember, there is nothing but the painting, the viewer, the viewing and the viewed, a single apparition.

As we move from moment-to-moment, experience to experience, circumstance to circumstance, we are simply traveling to different portions of the painting. You can never enter or exit the painting for there is only the painting.

Remember… you can never be cast out of the only thing that exists.

April 17, 2019

https://www.johnastin.com/blog/2020/1/18/the-stability-of-instability
THE PEACE THAT PASSETH UNDERSTANDING
I spent a couple of decades as a meditator, attempting to keep attention focused, trying to get my mind to become stabilized. However, the more I investigated the reality of my experience, the more apparent it became that there was no stability. The closer I looked, the clearer it became that experience (which of course includes attention) is changing from one flash instant to the next. Experience drifts, it undulates. After all, it’s alive! Life doesn’t hold still; it dances around. The flow of experiencing is just that, a flow; it never actually becomes anything solid or fixed. Reality is forever on the move, here for less than a nanosecond. And then gone. Swept away.

Now, because of the non-durational nature of things, I not surprisingly kept failing miserably at my meditative efforts to find stability. I longed for things to settle down and become still. But reality would have no part of it. Nope, any apparent stability, any seeming arrival at something substantial or fixed would be swept away no sooner than it arrived. There was no stability. That is what was revealed.

And yet this relentless instability, this ceaseless dance of transformation, this radically unstable dynamism turns out to be its own kind of stability. How so? Well, it is what’s real. In that sense, the inherent instability is what we can count on. We can count on the fact that experience does not endure but is forever on the move. We could call it the “stability of instability.”

But the deepest truth is that how this is, cannot actually be said. We can’t really say whether reality is stable or unstable, restless or calm, still or moving. Nope. What this is cannot be said for any description implies that experience actually resolves as being some “thing,” something definite and definable. But it doesn’t. And so the only true thing we can ever really say about what this is, is that it is simply un-sayable.

This is the peace that passeth all understanding…

https://www.facebook.com/groups/AwakeningToReality/posts/7666365556738141/?__cft__[0]=AZUBM41wV8775k-Dyoj3j6czafeqFOltxzifNysXe6tQQ2aIUUV5AJjcroTR3YPiu1EtvcsowEm0xO2EdpQLLz64Sk_uVCYOJyVf5Hg8FIv5d7eScogy6_kzfCPT6l3wX8S9mS0yO2aslnr0M4_bbedcUZLpNoubjixHSAf9axowGwIj6atXG8d2xkhGGCgyP_M&__tn__=%2CO%2CP-R

Rick Indie

This might seem like a mundane question, but i've been wondering Soh Wei Yu ; ever since your awakening, how has your emotional relationships with people changed?

View insights

530 post reach

9Sam Balali, Joel Rosenblum and 7 others

46 Comments

Like

Comment

Send

46 Comments

All comments

Active

Soh Wei Yu

Admin

People have commented that I am chill and cheerful/happy, that I don’t have a temper and they don’t see me angry and so on.

Basically I am happier and more peaceful. While normally people may often get frustrated, angry, not calm, when facing more challenging situations.

Also I don’t want to comment about my private life but I like how this Actualist describe his relationship with others after breaking through self. You become happier because you genuinely are happy throughout the day. How you relate therefore doesn’t come from a dark place.

“RESPONDENT: Dear Vineeto and Richard,

I have just posted up a report on Slack [actualist discussion group] and Yahoo Groups. I have been actually free since Nov 3rd 2018 and wanted to write you both and thank you for did for ‘me’ over the years that eventually allowed me to escape my fate and fulfil my destiny. Or perhaps I should say appreciate all you have done since there is no feeling of indebtedness anymore 🙂 […]

It is so deliciously amazing being here now. It is totally unimaginable and unbelievable as Richard has correctly said. It is quite freaky sometimes how giganormously vast this universe is such that it takes my breath away. I get intimations of infinitude and I am sure the definitive experience of it is on the horizon. I feel like my brain has been ‘uncapped’ and the magnificent universe – as oppose to ‘self’ and ‘other’ is my preoccupation. My body and mind are sometimes suffused with pleasure and expansiveness such that it is too much and I have to back away! I’ve been having a whale of a time just living my life for the last month or so. I’ve been having a fantastic time also comparing notes with Geoffrey and No 9(AF). The relationship with my girlfriend is like night and day. I’m like this big happy kid, that wants for her happiness. There is a delicious intimacy. Prior to this I was a grudging boyfriend, who often tolerated her and occasionally felt guilty enough to try and make a romantic gesture.

I would love to hear more about being fully free. But for now I am content to just enjoy and enjoy some more. The utter safety, spaciousness and stillness I am experiencing is truly something remarkable.

Yours actually 😉”

12

Like

Reply2d

Rick Indie

Author

this is beautiful

Like

Reply2d

Active

Reply to Soh Wei Yu…

Active

Soh Wei Yu

Admin

But why focus on me? You should ask others here. Lots of people realised anatta here

Like

Reply2d

Rick Indie

Author

Soh Wei Yu im not usually on fakebook often, so i havent had a chance to really see who else realized anatta. youre the main one i know & i see whenever im on, but i definitely dont deny there are other people here who have

2

Like

Reply2d

Active

Soh Wei Yu

Admin

Rick Indie

I hope others can comment more 🙂 from their insights and experience

Like

Reply2d

James Wolanyk

Rick Indie if I may chime in, as Soh said.. 🙂 My wife has remarked that I seem much more open, loving, cheerful, and optimistic. I no longer see the behavior of "others" as something that can upset me, as the web of interconnection removes the illusion that "I" am at the mercy of "them." Basically, more unified, grounded, and always at rest with reality as it unfolds.

3

Like

Reply2d

Rick Indie

Author

James Wolanyk thats amazing. so i see you mentioned your wife, how has your love for her changed? has it amplified at all? if you dont mind me asking

Like

Reply2dEdited

James Wolanyk

Rick Indie Hi Rick, sorry, just saw this - when I first was dating my wife and going through the earlier stages, I was very conflicted and not sure what to do with sexual desire or attraction on a romantic level. I thought I had to choose spirituality or love. Nowadays they've blended into a relative expression of the Absolute - romantic love is just one optional part of a much larger context of socializing, being helpful to others, and co-creating a reality that is better for all sentient beings 🙂 If you have specifics, please ask or message me, I don't mind!

4

Like

Reply2d

Ryan Burton

Rick Indie The earlier phases of awakening were characterized by disembodiment due to witnessing and self-enquiry… the sense of not feeling human because of the collapse of the identification processes. It was actually Anatta that brought the emotional centers back online. I didn’t feel much for a very long time, but after Anatta there’s the sense of being more human than ever before but without the sense of a me attached to it. Quite interesting and very impactful. Emotions are ornaments of the natural state and there’s certainly much more now than in years past.

7

Like

Reply2dEdited

Rick Indie

Author

Ryan Burton interesting, i guess because the earlier phases still have obscurations, so there mightve been attachment to feeling "dull"/disassociated/separate from everything, but im guessing anatta is the collapse of that separation, so you didnt feel a need to separate yourself from any feeling after anatta. does that sound about right?

Like

Reply2dEdited

Ryan Burton

Rick Indie didn’t feel the need to separate even before Anatta, but the difference was that afterwards I couldn’t experience duality even when I tried. Couldn’t undo the collapse.

2

Like

Reply2d

Ryan Burton

Rick Indie the dissociation always happened after the non-dual openings. So after “I Am” realization there was this oscillation between the experience of “I am Everything” and the sense of being a “me.”

It was always on the contraction phase of that cycle when the sense of “me” would return that the dissociation would arise.

2

Like

Reply2d

Ryan Burton

Rick Indie Sometimes those openings would last days and the contraction would follow for days or weeks and then another opening. This expansion-contraction cycle lasted 3 years or so. In the contraction phase of each cycle— difficulties would come to the forefront like feeling dissociated, apathy, negligent etc.

2

Like

Reply2d

Rick Indie

Author

Ryan Burton also, you mentioned disembodiment. did you stop feeling bodily sensations? or did you "ascend" past the sensations while they were still there in space?

Like

Reply2dEdited

Ryan Burton

Rick Indie body sensations would only vanish in meditation but that didn’t happen very often. Not sure what you mean by ascend past them? Could you clarify that?

Like

Reply2d

Rick Indie

Author

Ryan Burton i prob couldve worded that better, but its like this: so you know how the average person(pre-anatta & pre-"I Am") feels like they're "trapped" in a body? as if the body is the ultimate boundary for them? so for you, when i say ascend past it, i mean did your mind "extend" past feeling like your body was the ultimate boundary? could you feel sensations, but did those sensations feel like they were only a drop inside a bigger ocean?

Like

Reply2d

Rick Indie

Author

Soh Wei Yu James Wolanyk Ryan Burton the reason i keep asking about love is because im subconsciously afraid of losing emotion if i do reach a certain level of [de]realization. i dont want to lose compassion, and i dont want to be stuck in a state of emotionlessness for even a day. what was the most helpful realization that allowed emotions to flourish in anatta? whats the main realization that cut away depersonalization? i really appreciate the help

3

Like

Reply2d

Active

Yin Ling

Admin

Rick Indie

U won’t.

If u really have proper Anatta realization, not just at intellect level. the sense of self will be released, it is palpable, and then U will have a sense like things and ppl around u “feels u”, not literally, but u will find out. The strong sense that you feel “I am me here” now, will miraculously be subdued so much that it’s hard to pretend I’m just this body.

The contraction in the middle here will subdued over time, and each time they become less, the “I am this body” feeling drops even more. It’s slightly strange to “not feel much here” at first but not uncomfortable, it feels spacious, like a relief.

U won’t lose compassion at all. U will probably have more. Now u lost the boundaries between u and others, and the compassion will sometimes feels almost too powerful, it brings u out to help beings. U can ignore being compassionate and still do harm .. I’m not sure but for me i think the guilt will be nerve wrecking. I have a Buddhist background, I don’t think I can stand my own judgement against myself if I do stupid stuff to others.

Imo, a practitioner will have gone through quite abit of studying, willingly being selfless, metta, generosity to see that insight.

It is quite hard for a very self centered person to want to release this energy in the middle because it is counterintuitive at first until it becomes natural after a lot a lot of practise. In some degree the compassion helps the insight to deepen.

4

Like

Reply2d

Rick Indie

Author

Yin Ling wow...this was the confirmation i needed. my vipashyana was being held back by my fear, but now, i feel i wont hold back anymore. (& as far as compassion, i'll never ignore it. i naturally always had compassion for people. and after seeing what buddhas can do, its almost like i was "born" for buddhism, specifically vajrayana. my whole mission for becoming a buddha is to help people)

Like

Reply2d

Active

Yin Ling

Admin

Rick Indie yeah u will be a perfect fit for the boddhisatva path becusse the whole path is to buddhahood which is to help sentient beings, nothing else

Like

Reply2d

Rick Indie

Author

Yin Ling also, in reference to feeling spacious, would you say the primordial nature of mind feels like infinite space?

Like

Reply2d

Active

Yin Ling

Admin

Rick Indie yup, one don’t feel like “living in the body” anymore, which is a small space.

U live spaciously, as the “beingness” is limitless and every where 🙂

It’s wonderful, really. Like being let out of a mri machine , phew

Like

Reply2d

Rick Indie

Author

Yin Ling wow, this is really motivating. so, if my view is right, then our intrinsic awareness is always infinitely spacious like that, however, the skandhas flare up when we fixate too strongly on feeling like a "small self". and this gets worse when we fixate on identifying with the skandhas as our "self". basically, its like a matter of mind latching onto the closest thing it can relate to, despite already having an infinite nature. does that sound about right?

Like

Reply2d

Active

Yin Ling

Admin

Rick Indie yes absolutely right.

There’s two levels to it.

First it’s to know “who am I”( aka to know what is our “mind”) truly.

Then next step is to see this “minds” nature.

Just keep it at the back of your mind that this “awareness” is not apart from the skandhas, the phenomenas, and everything in the world. It’s in it. As it. The awareness is itself the skandhas.

Or else what u are worried about- the “derealization” and emotionless ness would be the problem if one separate out awareness as a separate thing. Coz now we would become “awareness”, “standing away” and looking at the world, and not the world, not participating, isolating ourselves and that is often the biggest worry along the path , ppl get stuck and think emotionless ness is the outcome.

In true Anatta, you become the world. You will notice soh will post a huge amount of stuff about this on his profile and also here, which is crucial for a wholesome realization 🙂

All the best on ur path. U r very sincere, I’m sure ur compassion will guide u always. Buddha be with you 🙂

3

Like

Reply2d

Active

Soh Wei Yu

Admin

Rick Indie

I spammed the 7 stages link and on anatta article to thousands of spiritual teachers and practitioners online and by email

Take me as an example of foolish compassion 😂 not to follow my example

4

Like

Reply2d

Active

Yin Ling

Admin

Soh Wei Yu I’m not sure though. Some ppl might be ready and it will resonate.

I heard once someone said actually the dhamma is self-concealed when asked why do some teachings are secret?

Bc if one is not ready to hear them they won’t.

One who is ready they will find it. I’m not sure haha

Like

Reply2d

Active

Soh Wei Yu

Admin

Yin Ling

Yes indeed some people resonate and some people already broke through to anatta from previous stage after talking to me

Thats why i continued spamming 😂

Like

Reply2d

Active

Soh Wei Yu

Admin

Yin Ling

https://www.integrateddaniel.info/the-eleventh-army-of-mara

The Eleventh Army of Mara — Integrated Daniel

INTEGRATEDDANIEL.INFO

The Eleventh Army of Mara — Integrated Daniel

The Eleventh Army of Mara — Integrated Daniel

Like

ReplyRemove Preview2d

Active

Yin Ling

Admin

Soh Wei Yu agree with this article. Even worse when I want to explain my understanding but I don’t know how do I actually come to this understanding because somehow it just all clicks and come tgt…

And how do one even explain?

Like

Reply2d

Active

Soh Wei Yu

Admin

Yin Ling need patience, not a one day thing especially for someone dull like myself

Im so fortunate john tan had the patience to talk and talk for years with me and repeat the same stuff from many different angles

He is truly a bodhisattva with mastery of patience paramita

2

Like

Reply1dEdited

Active

Soh Wei Yu

Admin

Yin Ling unfortunately i cant do that for others

Not as skillful nor have i the time

Like

Reply1d

Active

Soh Wei Yu

Admin

Yin Ling so i try to compile something, the books and journal for those interested

Like

Reply1d

Active

Yin Ling

Admin

Soh Wei Yu yes I agree. He also write long passages befitting my conditions to allow me to intuit. It is hard.

U too did a lot of work for others, don’t belittle urself !

Sometimes just doing our practice sincerely will help others. For years I never talk to my partner about the dhamma, coz for me it’s a personal thing and I don’t want to impose on others what I believe. I only answer when asked.

But I read and meditate around him and suddenly few weeks back he told me he started a meditation practice and read a Steve Hagen book.. 🥹

2

Like

Reply1d

Active

Soh Wei Yu

Admin

Yin Ling

Yes i read on reddit just a day or two ago

Someone with a similar story

Non believer partner suddenly after many years got interested in meditation due to seeing changes in the partner

Like

Reply1d

Sam Balali

Yin Ling When I see someone is deeply transformed I feel ego backlash-usually anger or fear. It's as if the ego senses that this intense truth is the death of itself and so it protects itself with these reactions.

Like

Reply1d

Active

Reply to Yin Ling…

James Wolanyk

Rick Indie Here is my experience as one guy who went from being a selfish early 20s kid to someone who now feels "stable" on the path - you never lose anything. You give up selfishness, deception, anger, lust, etc, and in return, you gain a sense of connection, ease, joy, honesty, basic goodness, and integrity. The fear around anatta and anicca is really born from the delusion of selfhood, which is constantly trying to scare you away from opening your heart to your own nature - the peaceful, open dharmadatu will always embrace you and lend strength for improving the lives of other beings in every possible domain, from the occupational to the social to the psychological ❤️ In short, you become what the world needs, and you share in its love and creativity.

2

Like

Reply2d

James Wolanyk

Rick Indie btw, if you are interested in bodhisattva topics, you can click my name and find the post I made recently on integration - it may soothe your mind 🙂

Like

Reply2d

Joel Rosenblum

Rick Indie why so scared of losing emotions? When you're dead, would you also like to be born again to have more emotions?

Like

Reply2d

Rick Indie

Author

Soh Wei Yu haha you & me are the same, I always spam helpful articles. But atleast you're not like Virupa where Avalokitshvara Buddha literally had to come down & tell Virupa "hey, it's good you're converting people to dharma...but please stop freaking people out with your magic powers."

2

Like

Reply1dEdited

Active

Soh Wei Yu

Admin

Rick Indie

Tara once told me my wishes will be fulfilled (and it did) and that i should “focus on helping people”

I had a strong connection to avalokitesvara and tara and had many visions and miraculous encounters, unworldly fragrance etc

2

Like

Reply1dEdited

Active

Soh Wei Yu

Admin

Rick Indie avalokitesvara told me to be compassionate

2

Like

Reply1d

Rick Indie

Author

Soh Wei Yu oh wow that's amazing. I want to meet them. But they probably only appear after someone achieves 1st bhumi, right? (or atleast until you achieve an exceptionally high level of metta if you're not awakened yet)

Like

Reply1dEdited

Active

Soh Wei Yu

Admin

Rick Indie idk lol

I think people even before awakening can have visions of them

It does not necessarily indicate your level of enlightenment

But i think what john tan said here indicates his high degree of enlightenment:

“…It can be realized, known and experienced including the supramadane abilities of buddha and bodhisattvas, the sambhogakaya body and buddhafields to those that r serious in practice. They maybe myth to some but not myth to me, at least it can be verified by first person experiences (imo) regardless how science think and that are already enough for me to cope…”

Like

Reply1d

Active

Soh Wei Yu

Admin

Sambhogakaya only appears to those from 8th bhumi onwards from what I read

Like

Reply1dEdited

Rick Indie

Author

Soh Wei Yu yes, I agree! Me & my family have predisposition to clairvoyance, I'm looking to perfect it after anatta (BTW, tell John thank you for recommending "Finding Rest in Illusion." That book is amazing)

Like

Reply1d

Active

Reply to Rick Indie…

Active

Yin Ling

Admin

Joyful, spacious, light, very simple.

But I still get annoyed when ppl bullshit me lol but it doesn’t go deep.

7

Like

Reply2d

 Session Start: Sunday, August 31, 2008

(2:08 PM) Thusness: wah u wrote so much about one taste. :P

(2:08 PM) Thusness: kok ur head!

(2:10 PM) AEN: huh where

(2:10 PM) AEN: lol

(2:10 PM) AEN: i just updated my post

(2:10 PM) AEN: removed some part and added some part

(2:10 PM) Thusness: every place. :P

(2:11 PM) Thusness: next time must do a constant check on the url awakeningtoreality. :P

(2:11 PM) Thusness: One Taste here and there...kok ur head

(2:11 PM) AEN: orh u mean google haha

(2:11 PM) AEN: i tot u mean sgforums

(2:11 PM) Thusness: yeah.  Although ken wilber experience is non-dual, it is not exactly One Taste yet.

(2:11 PM) AEN: oic y

(2:11 PM) AEN: one taste include emptiness?

(2:12 PM) Thusness: yes din i tell u?

(2:12 PM) AEN: icic..

(2:13 PM) Thusness: The non-duality of advaita sort of understanding is different from buddhism.

(2:13 PM) Thusness: how could one reaches the phase of One Taste without understanding the emptiness nature?

(2:14 PM) Thusness: The One Taste realisation is of 2 parts: No object/subject split and both object/subject are empty of any inherent existence.

(2:15 PM) AEN: oic..

(2:15 PM) Thusness: Penetrating these 2 aspects, insight arises of the One Taste.

(2:15 PM) Thusness: Since when did i tell u about Advaita sort of understanding is non-dual of Buddhism?

(2:15 PM) AEN: icic..

(2:16 PM) Thusness: So many times I told u it is the empty nature that Buddha came to teach us, not only the luminosity aspect.

(2:16 PM) Thusness: The non-dual luminous nature is described all over the Vedas

(2:17 PM) AEN: oic..

(2:17 PM) Thusness: kok ur head!

(2:18 PM) Thusness: Anyone not talking about the 3 seals, understanding the anatta sort of non-duality is not talking about Buddhism.

(2:19 PM) Thusness: anyone that lead to the understanding of Brahman is deluded in Buddhist perspective.  The One Mind, the One Reality is the non-inherent in nature.

(2:19 PM) Thusness: it should not be understood from a dualistic and inherent perspective.

(2:19 PM) AEN: oic but ken wilber talk about brahman meh :P

(2:20 PM) Thusness: Yes.

(2:20 PM) AEN: oic

(2:21 PM) Thusness: Therefore the experience is non-dual but the insight isn't.

(2:21 PM) AEN: icic..

(2:23 PM) AEN: so next time i shld show them the charlie singer article instead :P

(2:23 PM) Thusness: Charlie still need further refinement but it is already very good.

(2:24 PM) Thusness: There are not many good articles.

(2:24 PM) AEN: oic..

(2:24 PM) Thusness: Many do not have the clarity of the differences

(2:25 PM) Thusness: They are unable to discern correctly the difference.  In terms of experience and insight.

(2:25 PM) AEN: icic..

(2:25 PM) Thusness: U have to be careful when telling ppl.

(2:25 PM) Thusness: Fortunately u always quoted the bahiya sutta...haahah

(2:26 PM) AEN: oic.. haha

(2:26 PM) Thusness: it is both. :)

(2:26 PM) AEN: wat u mean both

(2:26 PM) Thusness: both non-dual in terms of experience and insight

(2:26 PM) AEN: oic..

(2:28 PM) AEN: the insight means theres insight into emptiness

(2:28 PM) AEN: ?

(2:28 PM) Thusness: yes

(2:28 PM) Thusness: so far the best to me is still Ajahn Amaro.  In terms of practical insight and experience.

(2:29 PM) Thusness: Clear and precise.

(2:29 PM) AEN: oic

(2:29 PM) AEN: but u said his e book not so gd?

(2:29 PM) Thusness: But that 'source' must be fully replaced with DO.

(2:29 PM) AEN: oic

(2:29 PM) Thusness: yes.

(2:29 PM) Thusness: That is the only problem.

(2:29 PM) Thusness: But he is still not wrong.

(2:29 PM) AEN: why not wrong

(2:29 PM) Thusness: The "I" is just a luminous clarity.

(2:30 PM) Thusness: In his mind, there is no sense of independence but still not thorough.

(2:30 PM) AEN: oic..

(2:31 PM) Thusness: Means he knows what Awareness is exactly.  Therefore when he said "I AM", u should not mistake him as referring to that stage 1.

(2:31 PM) Thusness: Though to him it is the same.

(2:32 PM) Thusness: But he is using it as if a practitioner has understood the full insight of emptiness and non-duality

(2:32 PM) Thusness: It is not the same.

(2:32 PM) AEN: icic..

(2:32 PM) Thusness: But to him, he is not aware of that point.

(2:32 PM) Thusness: It is not obvious to him.

(2:32 PM) Thusness: That is my opinion.

(2:33 PM) AEN: he is not aware of what

(2:33 PM) Thusness: That the experience of "I AM" is different.

(2:33 PM) AEN: but u said in the ebook is still quite dualistic rite

(2:33 PM) Thusness: yes

(2:33 PM) AEN: i tink he said something like oil and water

(2:33 PM) AEN: are separate

(2:33 PM) Thusness: yes

(2:33 PM) Thusness: i will talk about that later.

(2:34 PM) Thusness: means he cannot rest in the phenomena...

(2:34 PM) Thusness: the arising and ceasing

(2:34 PM) Thusness: why so?

(2:34 PM) Thusness: because of certain 'block' still.

(2:34 PM) Thusness: that 'block' must be completely gone.

(2:34 PM) AEN: oic..

(2:35 PM) Thusness: sames goes to Charlie Singer

(2:35 PM) Thusness: Seems almost there but not there. :P

(2:35 PM) AEN: why not

(2:35 PM) Thusness: Don't go everywhere say that i say hah...

(2:35 PM) AEN: oic

(2:35 PM) Thusness: The mirror is still there. :)

(2:36 PM) AEN: icic..

(2:36 PM) Thusness: what is appearance to him?

(2:36 PM) Thusness: seems like awareness yet not.

(2:36 PM) Thusness: seems like merely a reflection

(2:36 PM) Thusness: apparition

(2:36 PM) Thusness: of a mirror

(2:37 PM) AEN: oic..

(2:37 PM) AEN: but we can use that analogy for its emptiness?

(2:37 PM) Thusness: yes but unfortunately in terms of experience, it is not

(2:38 PM) Thusness: means the nature of an arising is not thoroughly experienced.

(2:38 PM) Thusness: and he is right.

(2:38 PM) Thusness: one needs to go through until this nature is fully and completely understood.

(2:38 PM) AEN: oic..

(2:40 PM) Thusness: What are the 2 truths of egolessness about?

(2:40 PM) AEN: emptiness of self and phenomena?

(2:40 PM) Thusness: yes

(2:40 PM) Thusness: subject and object

(2:40 PM) Thusness: if there is no background, no "ITness" to be found as 'Self/self'

(2:41 PM) Thusness: and there is no 'ITness' to be found in object or attributes

(2:41 PM) Thusness: 'What is' is mere Appearances

(2:42 PM) Thusness: there is no 'redness' in flower or any 'ITness' found anywhere

(2:42 PM) Thusness: both as 'Self' and 'Object' of identification

(2:42 PM) Thusness: So what is there?

(2:43 PM) AEN: awareness as appearances?

(2:43 PM) Thusness: Yes.

(2:43 PM) Thusness: There is only appearances

(2:43 PM) Thusness: and we do not know that this Appearance is our Buddha Nature in real time.

(2:44 PM) Thusness: There is a 'block' because the direct experience is not strong and thorough enough.

(2:44 PM) Thusness: There will come a time when total clarity dawn, there is no more doubt.

(2:45 PM) Thusness: Because of this 'Block', there is still traces of an independent 'I'.

(2:45 PM) Thusness: And there is no One Taste. :)

(2:45 PM) AEN: oic..

(2:47 PM) Thusness: Think I will write my opinion about it.

(2:47 PM) AEN: okie

(2:48 PM) Thusness: Actually I do not like to comment on these articles because it often leads to disputes and arguments.

(2:48 PM) Thusness: :P

(2:48 PM) AEN: no la

(2:48 PM) AEN: dun tink it will

(2:48 PM) AEN: our forum like v quiet

(2:48 PM) AEN: haha

(2:48 PM) Thusness: ahaha...

(2:49 PM) Thusness: it is for practice sake

(2:49 PM) Thusness: for experience sake

(2:49 PM) Thusness: not to create noise in ur forum

(2:49 PM) AEN: icic..

(2:51 PM) Thusness: have u finished reading 'The Sun, My Heart'?

(2:53 PM) AEN: nope

(2:53 PM) AEN: i read slowly one leh

(2:53 PM) AEN: maybe one chapter or less a day

(2:53 PM) AEN: haha

(2:53 PM) AEN: thats why i always take a long time to finish a bk

(2:53 PM) AEN: u wan to get from me isit

(2:55 PM) Thusness: yeah

(2:55 PM) Thusness: how is it?

(2:55 PM) Thusness: have u read it?

(2:57 PM) AEN: not a lot yet

(2:57 PM) AEN: i think shld be quite gd

(3:03 PM) AEN: namdrol also recommend clarifying the natural state for mahamudra :P "

Must reads are Clarifying the Natural State and Moonlight, Quintessence of Mind and Meditation. As for Buddhist magazines, I can't really say any of them are particularly bad or good-- they are for the most part lineage marketing material; and in the case of Tricycle, it is aimed at Barnes and Nobles Buddhists i.e. the authors you find at B&N are the authors you see in its pages."

(3:04 PM) Thusness: ic

(3:04 PM) AEN: no no

(3:04 PM) AEN: the orange book u had

(3:05 PM) AEN: last time we discussed b4 mah

(3:05 PM) AEN: that one is another one.. is not dzogchen, is mahamudra

(3:05 PM) Thusness: oh...yeah

(3:05 PM) Thusness: that one is good.

(3:05 PM) AEN: ic ya

(3:05 PM) Thusness: yeah...remembered.

(3:06 PM) AEN: theres another book, a thicker one... by dakpo tashi namgyal, i think more thorough. called Moonlight, Quintessence of Mind and Meditation

(3:06 PM) Thusness: ic

(3:06 PM) AEN: oh btw

(3:06 PM) AEN: wat u tink about this article http://www.iol.ie/~taeger/mahamud/mahamud.html

(3:16 PM) Thusness: not bad.

(3:16 PM) AEN: icic..

(3:17 PM) Thusness: but u know vajrayana got recognition by certain authority is important.

(3:17 PM) Thusness: lol

(3:17 PM) Thusness: I do not like to comment about that.  I am only interested in practical experience.

(3:17 PM) AEN: wat u mean got recognition by certain authority is important.

(3:18 PM) Thusness: means lineage is important lah

(3:18 PM) Thusness: for me, i have no interest in this sort of stuff.

(3:18 PM) Thusness: as long as the practitioner shows direct experience of our luminous and empty nature, he is a true practitioner

(3:19 PM) Thusness: at my current stage, i am vividly clear of that Buddha's teaching is the way towards liberation.

(3:19 PM) Thusness: There is no doubt in my experience and practice and Buddha's teaching.

(3:20 PM) Thusness: I am not particularly concerned about authority. :)

(3:20 PM) AEN: oic..

(3:22 PM) Thusness: where u get this url from?

(3:22 PM) AEN: dunnu leh

(3:22 PM) AEN: found somewhere then i save it in my browser

(3:22 PM) Thusness: seach from the web?

(3:22 PM) AEN: think so