(5:19
PM) Thusness: actually what he said about prajna and jhana is quite
good. But u have to know that it is not the sort of jhana as in
concentration.
(5:20 PM) Thusness: it is the experience of effortlessness in non-dual luminosity.
(5:22 PM) Thusness: There will come a time every day mundane activities, practice and enlightenment is just one substance.
(5:24 PM) AEN: no he said jnana
(5:24 PM) AEN: jnana is more like knowledge
(5:24 PM) AEN: not jhana absorption
(5:25 PM) Thusness: ic
(5:26
PM) Thusness: There will come a time when emptiness becomes so clear
and the separation is no more then without the need to recall or remind.
The last veil that separates is like permanently gone. Then there is no
practice because all moments of arising phenomena is just one practice.
(5:28 PM) AEN: oic..
(5:28 PM) AEN: thats what he means by observing emptiness and 'being' emptiness rite
(5:28 PM) AEN: i mean the difference between it
(5:29 PM) AEN: Initiated a file transfer
(5:29 PM) AEN:
In
a post above, i distinguished between the two. I know you asked
Matylda, but until she replies, if she does, possibly i could be of
help.
Prajna is the tool
that sees emptiness. It is actually an expansion of awareness, using
awareness in the context of mindfulness/awareness. Awareness gets to a
point where it discovers the nature of mind which includes emptiness. At
that point, awareness transforms into prajna. There are lesser stages
of prajna as well, but i would have to review them.
Prajna
has been likened to the mother of all the Buddhas, because through its
activity the mind that becomes the Buddha mind is born. Actually, it has
always been there, and is unborn, but let's not quibble.
(5:29 PM) AEN:
So,
prajna sees emptiness. When first seen, however, one feels emptiness as
separate from what has discovered it. There is still a slight trace of
dualism. We experience this dualism as a seeking for emptinesss ie there
is a seeker and something sought. At the realization of jnana, this
duality melts, so to speak, and emptiness exists or doesn't exist
without a sense of something observing it. Also, one attains wisdom when
emptiness arises, not wisdom about anything, simply being in the state
of wisdom. With prajna, one observes that wisdom; with jnana, one
becomes it.
Tsultrim
(5:35
PM) Thusness: jnana here does not refer to the type of concentration
like it said. It is an effortless non-dual luminous experience due to
the maturing of prajna.
(5:35 PM) Thusness: I have often said clear until absorbed. Vividness of forms.
(5:37
PM) Thusness: It is the outcome of the clarity of insight due to the
dissolving of that tendency to divide. It is natural, not a form of
attention or concentration. This should not be misunderstood.
(5:38
PM) Thusness: He mentioned about luminosity is the last fruition stage
and one must go through emptiness to realise this stage.
(5:39 PM) Thusness: This is not exactly right.
(5:39 PM) Thusness: Advaita Vedanta practitioner will experience the opposite.
(5:39 PM) AEN: oic..
(5:39 PM) AEN: but for mahamudra it is like that rite?
(5:39 PM) AEN: theravada also?
(5:39 PM) AEN: like dharma dan
(5:40 PM) Thusness: yes
(5:40 PM) Thusness: it is because of right view
(5:40 PM) Thusness: without the right view, u will experience luminosity aspect of awareness without knowing its empty nature.
(5:40 PM) Thusness: that is more dangerous.
(5:41 PM) Thusness: therefore establishment of right view is most important. Seeds are planted.
(5:42
PM) Thusness: It is better not to experience then to experience the
wrong stuff and makes it more difficult to get out of the dualistic
experience of Eternal Witness.
(Comments by Soh: Regarding whether it is important to go through I AM
realization or can we skip to anatta -- John Tan and I and Sim Pern
Chong have had differing and evolving opinions about this over the years
(I remember Sim Pern Chong saying he thinks people can skip it
altogether, John also wondered if it is possible or advisable as certain
AF people seem to have skipped it but experience luminosity), however
after witnessing the progress of people it seems to us that those who
went into anatta without the I AM realization tend to miss out the
luminosity and intensity of luminosity. And then they will have to go
through another phase. For those with I AM realization, the second
stanza of anatta comes very easily, in fact the first aspect to become
more apparent. Nowadays John and my opinion is that it is best to go
through the I AM phase, then nondual and anatta..
But
I have shown that it is possible to progress rather quickly (in eight
months) from I AM to anatta. So the being stuck is due to lack of right
pointers and directions, not inherently an issue with I AM.
And
the way to progress quickly is to be aware of the pitfalls of the I AM
as I wrote in the AtR guide, and going along the four aspects of I AM
and then nondual contemplations or two stanzas of anatta. If I kept
reinforcing the pitfalls of I AM with wrong view, maybe I can get stuck
there. Likewise for other phases, there are other pitfalls as well. Even
after anatta, John Tan has at times told me to revisit the aspect of I
AM. It is possible, even important, to integrate that quality and
taste.)
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