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Buddha's Relics from the Maitreya Project Tour:
A friend asked me about this topic, so I used ChatGPT to translate an article from Master Shen Kai's Fa Yu Bin Fen (1) (A Splendor of Dharma Discourses (1))"
Chinese original below.
Also, see John Tan's comments on Sariras in 2007 below.
*On Śarīra (Relics)*
"Śarīra" (舍利子) is indeed a miraculous and spiritual phenomenon. Although it is material in form, it can also be said to transcend the material realm. These relics are found only in the remains of Buddhas, Bodhisattvas, and eminent monks who have attained great spiritual realization. Even devout disciples of the Buddha, regardless of gender, who have cultivated deeply, may also have śarīra. Typically, these relics are discovered after a practitioner's body has been cremated, appearing among the ashes as many colorful, crystalline objects resembling beads or small seeds. Remarkably, these relics cannot be melted by intense heat, dissolved by moisture, damaged by high pressure, and they remain indestructible over vast periods of time.
It is curious that not all Buddhists possess śarīra. Those who have not engaged in proper spiritual cultivation, even if they are Buddhists, do not manifest these relics, just like those who do not follow Buddhism. There are many religions in the world, but why do the founders, missionaries, and followers of other religions not produce śarīra? The fact that these relics are found exclusively in genuine practitioners of the Buddha Dharma and not in those who follow non-Buddhist paths underscores their uniqueness. Moreover, the quantity of śarīra can be used as a measure of one’s level of spiritual attainment—the more profound the practice, the more śarīra one produces. If a person has accumulated merit and virtue over many lifetimes, the amount of śarīra is not only abundant, but their color and luster are exceptionally beautiful and exhibit astonishing phenomena.
According to Buddhist scriptures, when Śākyamuni Buddha entered Nirvāṇa, it is recorded: "At that time, the golden coffin rose from its seat, ascended to the height of seven palm trees, and traversed the sky, transforming into a fire of samādhi. In an instant, it turned to ashes, producing eight hu and four dou of śarīra, like five-colored pearls, radiant and indestructible." According to this account, one hu equals ten dou, resulting in a total of eighty-four dou. The eight great kings and the disciples of the Buddha then divided the śarīra among themselves, constructing stupas to enshrine and venerate them. Besides the portion kept in the human realm, some were enshrined in the dragon palaces and in the heavens. Furthermore, when the Buddha's chief disciple, Ānanda, was about to enter Nirvāṇa, his body ascended into the air, self-cremating in a blaze of fire, and along the banks of the Ganges, śarīra fell like rain from the sky.
Not only in ancient times but also in modern times, such as when the Buddhist leader Master Taixu passed away during the Republican era, more than four hundred pieces of śarīra were found after his cremation. Similarly, when the Pure Land patriarch Master Yinguang passed away, several hundred śarīra were discovered. Many other eminent monks also left behind śarīra. Particularly noteworthy is the case of the 46th year of the Republic of China when the Panchen Lama passed away in Taipei; his śarīra numbered seven to eight thousand, including the most precious Vajra Gems and Six-Syllable Wheels. The larger śarīra were the size of beans, while the smaller ones were like vegetable seeds, with colors ranging in brilliant hues, though the white ones were considered the most excellent.
There have been instances where śarīra were found even without cremation. For example, the great disciple Mahākāśyapa, whose indestructible vajra body remains in meditative absorption within Vulture Peak, waiting to appear at the Dharma assembly when Maitreya Buddha descends to benefit the multitude, before entering parinirvāṇa. Similarly, the bodies of Bodhisattva Kṣitigarbha at Mount Jiuhua, the Sixth Patriarch Huineng at Caoxi during the Tang dynasty, and Master Hanshan during the Ming dynasty, all left behind incorruptible relic bodies that continue to be venerated. The incorruptible bodies of Huineng and Hanshan are still enshrined at Nanhua Temple in Shaoguan, Guangdong. Another example is a Chinese monk in Thailand who passed away in middle age, and his body remains incorrupt to this day in Chengniang, Thailand, where a temple was specially built to enshrine it.
There are many other instances in which the bodies of true practitioners of the Buddha Dharma have become śarīra, including bones, marrow, hair, nails, flesh, and teeth. For example, the skull bone of Master Xuanzang was said to be radiant, and the tongue root of the great translator Kumārajīva did not burn in the fire, all of which are considered śarīra treasures.
Śarīra can also be manifested through spiritual resonance. During the Eastern Wu period of the Three Kingdoms, a minister named Sun Hao, after hearing the Dharma Master Kangsengkai speak about the merits of venerating śarīra, wished to obtain śarīra for veneration. After 49 days of earnest prayer, he suddenly heard a sound from an empty bottle at midnight, and to his amazement, a relic of merit appeared. When the Wu king had a strongman place the śarīra on an iron anvil and strike it with a hammer, the anvil and hammer were both dented, but the śarīra remained unharmed.
There are numerous examples of śarīra being found in modern times. A notable case involves a general named Zhu Ziqiao, who, after devoutly praying at the Xuanzang Pagoda in Xi'an, saw a brick fall from the pagoda, revealing two śarīra attached to it. He subsequently initiated the pagoda's restoration. In Hong Kong, the Venerable Zhumo stated that when he went on pilgrimage to Bodh Gaya in India, a veteran practitioner named Guangqing, who had been worshipping at the Mahabodhi Temple for three years, witnessed śarīra falling from the stupa. He even gifted two śarīra to Zhumo and another lay practitioner.
Moreover, the relics of the 9th Panchen Lama were placed in the mouth of the late nationalist elder, Ju Zhengjue Sheng, upon his death. Surprisingly, the number of śarīra increased from two to seven. When these relics were later gifted to the Venerable Liziwan at the Shandao Temple in Taipei, the śarīra further multiplied to ten. Similarly, the founder of the Gelug school, Je Tsongkhapa, whose disciples enshrined one of his fallen teeth as a śarīra, later found it sprouting more śarīra for others to venerate.
In summary, śarīra are not merely bones, flesh, or other bodily remnants, but rather the manifestation of the practitioner's accumulated merit, wisdom, compassion, and virtues cultivated over lifetimes. This is why śarīra are considered transcendental, beyond material substances. As the Golden Light Sutra states, "Śarīra are formed through the cultivation of morality, concentration, and wisdom, and are extremely rare to obtain, representing the highest field of merit." Furthermore, the Prajñāpāramitā Sutra states, "The Buddha's body and śarīra are formed through the profound cultivation of the Perfection of Wisdom, making them revered and honored by all beings, both human and celestial."
Therefore, those who venerate the śarīra of Buddhas and Bodhisattvas receive immeasurable blessings, and these relics inspire people to cultivate virtue, abandon evil, and seek the truth. This immense spiritual power of śarīra cannot be fully expressed in words.
Ultimately, śarīra are the result of the practitioner's meritorious deeds and the highest virtues of compassion, joy, and wisdom, which benefit both oneself and the world. This is why śarīra are considered super-material, beyond the limitations of the physical world.
谈舍利子
“舍利子”，实在是一种非常奇妙灵异的东西，虽然是物质的，也可说非物质的；但是，却只有诸佛菩萨、高僧大德比丘才有，佛门弟子修持功深的不论男女也有，通常都把修行人死了火化之后，从骨灰中捡出许多五色晶莹，形状如豆如珠的叫做舍利子。它，高热不能熔，高湿不能化，高压不能损，经劫不坏。奇怪的是：不能说凡是佛教徒都有，如果没有修持的，也和一般不信佛教的人一样没有，世界上的宗教很多，为什么其他宗教的教主、传教士与信徒都没有；修道的人，不限于佛教，那些外道及旁门左道就没有，却仅限于真正修持
·115·
佛法的人才有，而且，从舍利的多寡，还可以衡量修持的程度，功夫深的舍利多，功夫浅的舍利少，如系多生累劫所修成的，舍利之多，色泽之美，以及灵异之事，更是不可思议。
按佛典记载，释迦牟尼佛涅槃的情形是：“尔时金棺从座而起，高七多罗树，往返空中，化火光三昧，须臾灰生，得舍利子八斛四斗，如五色珠，光莹坚固”，依照解释，十斗为一斛计算，竟有八十四斗之多，当时八大国王及佛弟子，共分舍利，建塔供养，除大部份在人间外，还有部份在龙宫或天上。又佛陀的大弟子，阿难尊者，临涅槃时，肉身腾空，出火自化，恒河两岸，舍利如雨，从空而降。不但古时，就是民国时代的佛教领袖--太虚大师，圆寂，也得了舍利四百多粒，净宗祖师--印光大师，示寂，亦得舍利数百粒，还有其他不知多少高僧大德也都有舍利；尤其是民国四十六年在台北圆寂的章嘉活佛，舍利子总数达七八千粒之多，还有最尊贵的金刚宝和六字轮，舍利子大者如豆，小者如蔬菜的种子，其颜色五彩灿烂，但以白色为最殊胜，其他，佛教的比丘、比丘尼、优婆塞、优婆夷四众弟子中
·116.
，遗身有舍利的，或多或少，时有所闻，不胜枚举。
其实，不一定圆寂经火化后才有舍利子，如佛陀的大弟子之一的迦叶尊者，他金刚不坏的肉身舍利，入定隐身于灵鹫山中，等待将来弥勒佛下生时，才现身法会，影响大众得利，然后方取入灭。安徽九华山的地藏菩萨；唐朝曹溪的六祖慧能大师；明朝的憨山大师；中国佛教历史上还有一位无尽藏比丘尼等等，他们的肉身舍利，仍然留在人间，给人瞻礼供养，慧能和憨山两位大师的肉身，现仍供养在广东韶关的南华寺内；还有一位华僧在泰国，中年圆寂，其肉身不坏，今尚存泰国呈娘地方，为泰人特为建寺供养，据说头发比死时还长了五分；在台湾汐止弥勒内院的慈航菩萨肉身不坏舍利，更是哄动中外的大新闻，为海内外人士所敬仰：在南海普陀山古佛洞，亦有圆寂多年的老和尚肉身不坏。关于肉身舍利，中国各大名山，亦皆有之。凡依佛法真正修持的人，不但骨骼与精髓，乃至毛发指甲、血肉及牙齿，全身皆可成为舍利，如玄奘大师的头顶骨，有光有色；鸠摩罗什法师的舌根，经火不焚，这
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些都是舍利瑰宝。
舍利还可因感应所得，在我国东吴孙权的时代，有大臣名孙皓，因闻梵僧康僧铠法师演说供养舍利的切德，想得舍利供养，恳请法师教令结坛虔诚祈求，经四十九天，子夜忽闻空瓶之中，铮然有声，竟发现功德舍利，吴王令大力士，试将舍利放在铁砧上，以铁锤击之，砧锤皆陷，舍利却无损。宋朝王日休居士，镌龙舒净土文，在木板中刻出一颗舍利。又宋时常熟有妇人陶氏，持诵阿弥陀经，经中忽然进出许多舍利，所积有合余。西晋时代，有僧名慧达，在贸县地方，礼拜虔求佛陀舍利，一时舍利与塔，从地涌出，现在宁波阿育王寺供养的，据说就是慧达礼拜出土的那颗舍利。在近代有一位朱子桥将军，他曾在西安的兴教寺玄奘大师塔院虔诚礼拜，塔上忽然跌下一块砖头，拾起一看，原来有两颗舍利附在上面，因此发起重修塔院。在香港的竺摩法师说，他去印度朝觐佛教圣地的时候，在佛成道处的菩提伽耶，遇着一个老修行，名广清师，他在伽耶大塔礼拜佛的舍利，已有三年，曾亲见有舍利自塔落下，还送给他及另一位居士各二颗，颜色
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鲜明，圆润可爱。民国党国元老居正觉生居士，曾供奉班禅活佛的舍利两粒，后自动变为七粒，居老先生逝世时，夫人取舍利两粒，置入居士口中，大殡完毕，发现家中所供舍利，仍为七粒，后赠送李子宽老居士在台北善导寺供养，竟又发现舍利增为十粒。西藏密宗黄教教主宗喀巴大师，晚年掉了一只牙齿，门人弟子把它当作舍利收藏礼拜供养，后来竟在牙根长出许多舍利子来，给大众分开供养，分了再长，长了又分。据说又有一位活佛，早年在大陆，尚未圆寂时，常有弟子向他礼拜求请舍利，可随时从鼻孔中捏下两颗舍利子来交与带回供养。相传曾有缅甸商人达普陀和波利迦兄弟，用宝盒装回佛陀的头发八根（即佛身舍利），在归途两次被人强劫，共失去四根，回到缅甸，得楞王乌伽罗巴迎供建塔，把宝盒打开一看，仍是八根如故。晚近信徒供养舍利，亦时有增生舍利的事实；又因凡举行佛事，虔诚感格，又常有灯花中结成之舍利。
笔者在台湾各处，曾参观礼拜过佛菩萨及圣僧大德和老修行们的舍利；在嘉义曾见过李济华老居士因他虔诚礼佛念佛所结的灯花舍利
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，当时很欢喜，并预祝他将来往生时定有舍利，果然，不几年李老在台北，预知时至，无疾坐脱而终，火化后得大小舍利子数粒，并有舍利树与舍利花。又曾参观高雄寿山寺启建的燃灯法会，见正收灯花舍利甚多。十多年前曾在嘉义参观过某法师刚从印度请回供养的佛陀舍利，形状如小花生米，笔者看见的颜色是白色，据说看到白色很好，有人看到金黄或淡黄，有人见为天蓝或绿色，有人见是红色或紫色，有人见如珍珠，有人看似玉石，或珊瑚琥珀玛瑙等色，或因业重，看见是灰色或黑色，或因一时至诚所感，或胡跪合掌忏悔业障，发愿行善，而随即使所见色泽变好，观者深觉奇怪万分；如我国近代有位法学家罗家杰先生，笃信佛教，曾到宁波阿育王寺，礼拜佛陀舍利，初见是黑色，自知业障深重，郁郁寡欢，乃在寺中留住七日七夜，至诚礼忏，至第七日再看舍利，已转为白色，才欢喜而去。故舍利子在佛教信徒的心目中，早已充满着鼓舞人类的精神意志纯洁向上，引发人心去恶向善励行道德，追求真理的一种非笔墨言语所能形容的巨大力量。
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盖因舍利是由于行者生前的功德，以及慈悲喜舍智慧利人利世的至高德业所薰修而成，甚难稀有，所以说舍利是非物质，乃是超物质的。金光明经上说：“舍利是戒定慧功德所薰修，甚难可得，最上福田。”又曰：“是舍利者，即是无量六波罗蜜所得所重。”般若经也说：“佛身及设利罗（即舍利），皆由如是甚深般若波罗蜜多功德所薰修故，乃为一切世间天人，供养恭敬，尊重赞叹。”所以世人如发心供养佛菩萨的舍利，所获种种福报，实难思量也。
由各方面的事实证明，舍利尚不仅是毛发血肉及骨骼精髓所成，其颜色亦不仅白黑赤三种，如以华语译音为“身骨”或“灵骨”“遗骨”的话，亦不尽能包涵舍利本身所具备应有的意义。
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Buddha's Relics from the Maitreya Project Tour:
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Master Yuan Yin's relics and passing: The Biography of Yuan Yin Lao Ren
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Session Start: Saturday, January 27, 2007
(11:35 PM) AEN: hi.. wat time u sleeping today?
(11:44 PM) AEN: eh ask u ah isit a common characteristic among characteristics to have a very 'bright' and 'young' look?
(11:44 PM) AEN: for example u look at master chin kung's picture... even tho he is 80 years old now.. he looks like 40s.. master shen kai as well, when he was 70s, he look like 40s
(11:45 PM) AEN: i notice lzls also look v young.. ppl noticed her looks changed after she practised.. when compared to her husband is v different
(11:45 PM) AEN: oh yes and eckhart tolle as well.. he looks much younger than his age.. he also wrote a chapter in the power of now, saying practising the power of now will lead to slower ageing etc...
(11:45 PM) AEN: and say if u dun believe try it
(11:45 PM) AEN: lol
(11:47 PM) AEN: a common characteristic among characteristics --> i mean common characteristic among practitioners
(12:00 AM) AEN: back
(12:01 AM) Thusness: my wife step on my specks...broke
(12:01 AM) Thusness: lol
(12:01 AM) AEN: wahahaha
(12:01 AM) AEN: whats ur degrees
(12:01 AM) Thusness: 850
(12:01 AM) Thusness: lol
(12:01 AM) Thusness: what do u mean by a common characteristics among characteristic?
(12:02 AM) AEN: wah 850 :P
(12:02 AM) AEN: i mean common characteristic among practitioner
(12:03 AM) AEN: oh yes and my friend too.. wait
(12:03 AM) Thusness: can say so. :)
(12:08 AM) AEN: oh no i lost my ren cheng account password :P wanted to find something
(12:08 AM) AEN: lol wait ah
(12:09 AM) AEN: *ren cheng forum account
(12:15 AM) AEN: back
(12:15 AM) AEN: ?????????,??????????????????????: ??????? ??????,????: ???????? ???: ????????,????????????????????????? ???,???????????????????????????: ???????? ??????????????????: ????????? ???????,???????,?????????????????,???????????????????????????,??????? ?? ????????????????????????????,???????????????????????????????????????,???????????????????????,????????????????,??????????????????,?????? ? ? ? ??,?????? ??? ,????????????????
(12:15 AM) AEN: -- my friend
(12:15 AM) AEN: btw about the letter..
(12:15 AM) AEN: u wanna email her urself? :P
(12:16 AM) Thusness: no need lah...
(12:16 AM) Thusness: if got yuan i will meet up with her.
(12:16 AM) Thusness: what about ur friend?
(12:16 AM) AEN: no my friend said he everyone found him look different when he practised
(12:16 AM) AEN: lol
(12:17 AM) Thusness: lol..
(12:17 AM) Thusness: ic
(12:17 AM) Thusness: but that is not the stuff lah
(12:17 AM) Thusness: u do not know what eckhart tolle is toking about
(12:17 AM) AEN: u mean the ageing part?
(12:17 AM) Thusness: yes
(12:17 AM) AEN: oic then wat is it
(12:18 AM) Thusness: in advaita, the body doesn't seem to undergo change
(12:19 AM) Thusness: but krishnamutri did say that his body undergone tremendous transformation
(12:19 AM) Thusness: it is due to the seven factors of enlightenment
(12:19 AM) AEN: oic.. wat kind of transformation
(12:19 AM) Thusness: one of them is the energy
(12:19 AM) Thusness: like what jonls is experiencing
(12:19 AM) AEN: oic..
(12:20 AM) Thusness: longchen should be too unless his work is troubling him
(12:20 AM) Thusness: lol
(12:20 AM) AEN: haha icic
(12:20 AM) Thusness: however when one stabilize his non-duality, his body will definitely undergo transformation
(12:20 AM) Thusness: dancing energy all around the body
(12:20 AM) AEN: oic..
(12:21 AM) AEN: so u mean the energy leads to slower ageing
(12:21 AM) Thusness: not as the thing u said.
(12:21 AM) AEN: no wonder master hsu yun can live until 120 years old :P
(12:21 AM) Thusness: slow aging yes but not in terms of age.
(12:21 AM) AEN: oo icic
(12:21 AM) Thusness: diet is important
(12:21 AM) Thusness: until one stage u want to eat vege
(12:21 AM) Thusness: but i still eat meat...eheheh
(12:22 AM) AEN: hahaha how come
(12:22 AM) AEN: vege is gd wot
(12:22 AM) AEN: lankavatara ask ppl to become vegetarian leh
(12:22 AM) Thusness: it will help a lot...
(12:22 AM) AEN: oic how come
(12:22 AM) Thusness: yes
(12:22 AM) AEN: then why u dowan
(12:22 AM) Thusness: i got bad karma...lol
(12:22 AM) AEN: oh ya longchen said a year ago he say his diet changed a lot and he no longer eat red meat
(12:22 AM) AEN: and he become much thinner
(12:22 AM) Thusness: but meditative experience tell me that i have to...
(12:22 AM) AEN: ya u shld
(12:22 AM) Thusness: and fasting too.
(12:23 AM) Thusness: a lot of ppl dunno.
(12:23 AM) AEN: wah fasting..
(12:23 AM) AEN: why dunno
(12:23 AM) Thusness: yes
(12:23 AM) AEN: if they experience they shld know wot
(12:23 AM) Thusness: fasting is also important
(12:23 AM) AEN: oic how come
(12:23 AM) Thusness: dunno
(12:23 AM) Thusness: it is just the experience
(12:24 AM) Thusness: perhaps it is this transformation that brought about the relics
(12:24 AM) AEN: icic..
(12:24 AM) Thusness: somehow there is this feeling
(12:24 AM) AEN: that there will be relics? :P
(12:24 AM) Thusness: a crystal clear feeling.
(12:24 AM) AEN: oic..
(12:24 AM) Thusness: yeah...not that one long for it but the body is going through this transformation especially stabilization of non-duality in all 3 stages.
(12:25 AM) AEN: icic
(12:25 AM) Thusness: in which sleep is most important
(12:25 AM) Thusness: sleep is like a very deep form of samadhi
(12:25 AM) Thusness: also deepest form
(12:25 AM) Thusness: and is especially important for a person that experience non-dual.
(12:25 AM) Thusness: deep sleep is crucial.
(12:26 AM) AEN: icic..
(12:26 AM) Thusness: but till a certain stage it will can reduce to very few hours
(12:26 AM) Thusness: but not what ur lzls is experiencing.
(12:27 AM) AEN: oic..
(12:28 AM) AEN: my master also slept quite little i tink.. 4 hours. but i tink is due to his busy lifestyle
(12:28 AM) AEN: buddha slept the least
(12:28 AM) AEN: 1 hour
(12:28 AM) AEN: lol
(12:28 AM) Thusness: yes
(12:28 AM) Thusness: buddha is different.
(12:28 AM) AEN: did u read about my previous moderator?
(12:28 AM) AEN: namelessness
(12:28 AM) Thusness: 4hrs is about there but it can be lesser
(12:28 AM) AEN: icic
(12:29 AM) Thusness: nope
(12:29 AM) AEN: he say he 4 days don need to sleep also can :P lol
(12:29 AM) Thusness: that is bad.
(12:29 AM) AEN: but now due to busy lifestyle he also need to sleep la
(12:29 AM) AEN: wahahaha
(12:29 AM) Thusness: no lah...i m not toking about without sleep
(12:29 AM) Thusness: ahaha
(12:30 AM) AEN: he say other ppl's tiredness can transfer to him
(12:30 AM) Thusness: that is a problem
(12:30 AM) AEN: icic
(12:30 AM) Thusness: it is not a stage that u can imagine now.
(12:30 AM) AEN: oic
(12:30 AM) Thusness: definitely not anyone u know.
(12:30 AM) Thusness: including me.
(12:30 AM) AEN: icic..
(12:31 AM) Thusness: that is that person spiritual development must be at least higher than me...heheeh
(12:31 AM) Thusness: which is quite unlikely
(12:31 AM) Thusness: kekekekeke
(12:31 AM) Thusness: it is at least going through the second round of non-dual
(12:32 AM) Thusness: and after the attainment of transcendental body
(12:32 AM) AEN: icic..
(12:32 AM) Thusness: therefore not anyone u know now.
(12:32 AM) AEN: hahaha
(12:32 AM) AEN: oic
(12:32 AM) AEN: second round of non dual?
(12:32 AM) AEN: wat u mean
(12:32 AM) Thusness: u won't know now lah
(12:33 AM) Thusness: so buddha yes
(12:33 AM) Thusness: not us
(12:33 AM) AEN: icic
(12:33 AM) Thusness: most are not even the waking state of non-dual
(12:33 AM) AEN: oic
(12:33 AM) AEN: isit when buddhahood, 8th consciousness is completely cleared of impurities?
(12:33 AM) Thusness: would be a blessing if one can have insight into true no-self.
(12:33 AM) AEN: icic
(12:34 AM) Thusness: yes
(12:34 AM) AEN: icic.. ya lzls was telling us about it.. and said that is the 6th supernatural power
(12:34 AM) AEN: which a buddha who cleared his 8th consciousness has
(12:35 AM) Thusness: ur lzls said what?
(12:35 AM) AEN: cos just now there was a topic about 6 supernatural powers
(12:35 AM) AEN: then lzls got add in a bit
(12:35 AM) AEN: she also didnt elaborate a lot la
(12:36 AM) Thusness: a topic about 6 supernatural power?
(12:36 AM) AEN: ya
(12:36 AM) Thusness: by teacher chen?
(12:36 AM) AEN: no i tink my master article, then other ju shi read out and share some of their views
(12:36 AM) Thusness: don't tok about supernatural power.
(12:36 AM) AEN: hahahaha
(12:36 AM) Thusness: :)
(12:36 AM) AEN: no la we dont encourage that
(12:37 AM) AEN: in fact we also share about this article about buddha forbidding his disciple from displaying powers
(12:37 AM) AEN: and not good to seek powers..
(12:37 AM) Thusness: the 6 supernatural power if possible should be explained as a form of emptiness nature
(12:37 AM) Thusness: in relation to our nature
(12:38 AM) Thusness: and nothing else.
(12:38 AM) Thusness: and in a most correct form.
(12:38 AM) AEN: my master last time ask teacher chen to drop all his powers.. he went to the mountains to find my master, and wanted to challenge him in supernatural powers cos he thought nobody can beat him in supernatural powers, lol.. but my master tell him to drop all of them. cos they can distract wisdom development
(12:38 AM) AEN: icic..
(12:39 AM) Thusness: where got no one can match him lah...:P
(12:39 AM) AEN: hahaha
(12:39 AM) AEN: he thought so.. he said even b4 he knew buddhism he attain all sort of power and thought he was the most powerful already
(12:39 AM) Thusness: ic. :)
(12:40 AM) Thusness: if one can stop all these toks, then there is true achievement.
(12:40 AM) AEN: hahahaha
(12:40 AM) AEN: no la the point is not to seek powers mah.. lol
(12:41 AM) Thusness: it is always the mind that wants to show.
(12:41 AM) Thusness: and the curious mind wants to go beyond.
(12:41 AM) AEN: icic
(12:41 AM) Thusness: a true attainer will know.
(12:42 AM) AEN: oic
(12:42 AM) Thusness: especially after all the 3 states of non-dual become one.
(12:42 AM) Thusness: even a tick of the mind to be out of what is will bring u out of that state.
(12:42 AM) Thusness: how will he want to do that.
(12:43 AM) AEN: icic..
(12:44 AM) Thusness: to me i would see that supernatural power is important only to understand the further meaning and have indepth experience of dharma.
(12:44 AM) Thusness: like no-self, emptiness and suffering
(12:44 AM) AEN: oic..
(12:44 AM) Thusness: not even in helping others
(12:44 AM) AEN: icic
(12:45 AM) Thusness: and definitely not like a monkey showing ppl. :P
(12:45 AM) AEN: hahahah
(12:46 AM) Thusness: one should practice until crystal clarity is experienced and later the attainment of transcendental body.
(12:46 AM) AEN: icic..
(12:46 AM) Thusness: that is like the body of bliss.
(12:46 AM) AEN: oic..
(12:47 AM) Thusness: when i say that i disagree in lanka about the vows, i don't mean that taking vows is not important
(12:48 AM) Thusness: what i meant is why is taking vows necessary for one to enter stage 8?
(12:48 AM) AEN: icic
(12:48 AM) Thusness: vows as a compassionate heart for sentient being is okie
(12:48 AM) Thusness: i can understand that.
(12:48 AM) AEN: icic..
(12:48 AM) Thusness: and if that differentiate a theravadin arahat, i can still accept
(12:49 AM) Thusness: but not due to the help of buddha's power one enter into 8 bhumi. :)
(12:49 AM) Thusness: there is a reason for it to be said so i guessed. :)
(12:49 AM) AEN: oic.. u guessed?
(12:49 AM) AEN: guessed wat
(12:50 AM) AEN: i mean wats ur guess
(12:51 AM) Thusness: i don't think it is necessary...hehehe
(12:51 AM) Thusness: i think sleep is more important :P
(12:51 AM) Thusness: deep deep sleep
(12:51 AM) AEN: har? lol
(12:51 AM) AEN: icic
(12:51 AM) AEN: wait u say sleep is samadhi?
(12:51 AM) AEN: then whenever we sleep we enter samadhi? lol
(12:52 AM) Thusness: deep sleep...yeah. :P
(12:52 AM) AEN: oic so actually everyone enters samadhi everyday? lol
(12:52 AM) AEN: like that dun need to meditate liao hahaha
(12:52 AM) Thusness: yeah
(12:52 AM) AEN: i mean to enter samadhi
(12:52 AM) Thusness: unfortunately they don't know...lol
(12:53 AM) Thusness: it is like our nature, we are already buddha
(12:53 AM) AEN: hmm ya teacher chen always say everyone has no problem of letting go one.. cos everyday u fall asleep everything is put aside lol
(12:53 AM) Thusness: just that we don't know
(12:53 AM) AEN: oic
(12:53 AM) Thusness: u have to let go
(12:53 AM) Thusness: and completely let go
(12:53 AM) AEN: icic
(12:54 AM) Thusness: but the experience of witnessing presence without proper guidance will deny one's access to it. :)
(12:54 AM) Thusness: poor thing
(12:54 AM) AEN: oic..
(12:55 AM) Thusness: what is the role of conscious mind?
(12:55 AM) AEN: thinks?
(12:55 AM) AEN: lol
(12:56 AM) Thusness: the every conscious mind is always 'doing'
(12:56 AM) Thusness: what about enlightened being
(12:56 AM) Thusness: or a person that enters into noble path lah
(12:57 AM) Thusness: no need enlightened being
(12:57 AM) Thusness: eheheh
(12:57 AM) AEN: oic..
(12:57 AM) AEN: hmm
(12:57 AM) AEN: detached doing? lol
(12:57 AM) Thusness: and what does that mean?
(12:58 AM) AEN: means there is no identification with self?
(12:58 AM) Thusness: they already know there is no-self, what is there to identify
(12:59 AM) AEN: icic..
(1:02 AM) Thusness: what is the role?
(1:03 AM) AEN: its role is functioning in the world? lol
(1:03 AM) Thusness: yes
(1:03 AM) Thusness: but what must it do?
(1:03 AM) AEN: mental and karmic factors?
(1:04 AM) Thusness: nothing
(1:04 AM) AEN: huh
(1:04 AM) Thusness: nothing needs be done
(1:04 AM) AEN: oh i thought u mean why
(1:04 AM) AEN: read wrongly
(1:04 AM) AEN: icic..
(1:04 AM) Thusness: yes but why?
(1:05 AM) Thusness: whatever JonLS said is right but it can't be acheived most of the time. :)
(1:06 AM) AEN: what he said?
(1:06 AM) Thusness: do nothing
(1:06 AM) AEN: icic
(1:06 AM) Thusness: absolutely nothing
(1:06 AM) Thusness: i never say he is wrong
(1:06 AM) Thusness: :)
(1:06 AM) Thusness: i just said it is the path for non-dual experiencer
(1:07 AM) Thusness: even for him it will be tough
(1:07 AM) AEN: icic..
(1:07 AM) Thusness: because the mind can't cope with all its propensities still reacting
(1:07 AM) AEN: oic..
(1:07 AM) Thusness: therefore skillful means are needed
(1:08 AM) AEN: icic
(1:08 AM) Thusness: not for our luminous nature
(1:08 AM) Thusness: but for the propensities
(1:08 AM) AEN: mindfulness is also a skillful means rite
(1:08 AM) Thusness: yes
(1:08 AM) Thusness: even emptiness
(1:08 AM) AEN: ven gunaratana said u can develope a mental habit of maintaining mindfulness
(1:08 AM) Thusness: yes
(1:08 AM) AEN: oic
(1:09 AM) Thusness: so the mind must non-do
(1:09 AM) AEN: icic
(1:09 AM) Thusness: and allow happening
(1:09 AM) Thusness: this is its role
(1:09 AM) Thusness: like christians say just receive grace can liao
(1:09 AM) Thusness: lol
(1:10 AM) Thusness: theirs is by faith, buddhism is by wisdom.
(1:10 AM) AEN: oic..
(1:12 AM) Thusness: so even with all our will and effort and understanding, can we let go completely?
(1:12 AM) AEN: no
(1:13 AM) Thusness: or have we met any spiritual developer that truly able to?
(1:13 AM) AEN: buddha? lol
(1:13 AM) Thusness: yes
(1:13 AM) AEN: oic
(1:13 AM) Thusness: but who else?
(1:13 AM) AEN: how i know lol
(1:13 AM) Thusness: only truly enlightened being can
(1:13 AM) AEN: oic
(1:13 AM) AEN: means wat.. 8th bhumi
(1:14 AM) Thusness: then why sleep can?
(1:14 AM) Thusness: even the witnessing also gone.
(1:14 AM) Thusness: kekekeke
(1:14 AM) AEN: oic..
(1:15 AM) AEN: oh ya u still haven reply me how come u said u dowan to read 9th and 10th bhumi "coz it prevents me from experiencing purely."
(1:15 AM) Thusness: if daily life we can't as u said, then we are still denied of sleep that can, does he progress or retrogress?
(1:16 AM) AEN: retrogress?
(1:16 AM) AEN: if daily life we can't as u said, then we are still denied of sleep that can, --> denied of sleep that can?
(1:17 AM) Thusness: denied sleep that can completely let go
(1:18 AM) Thusness: so retrogress or progress?
(1:19 AM) AEN: back
(1:20 AM) AEN: retrogress
(1:20 AM) Thusness: if we become less attached in the day and hold on to the night where we can completely let go, it is such a pity.
(1:21 AM) Thusness: it is only for truly enlightened being for there is complete letting go all the time that does not make a diff
(1:22 AM) Thusness: we should not immediate the external forms
(1:22 AM) AEN: back
(1:22 AM) AEN: icic..
(1:23 AM) Thusness: for non-dual experiencer where there is complete letting go of the illusionary self, there is tremendous progress and if night they are able to, is there real progress?
(1:24 AM) AEN: icic..
(1:24 AM) AEN: ooh
(1:24 AM) AEN: progress
(1:24 AM) Thusness: then they complete the first cycle. :)
(1:24 AM) AEN: what u mean by first cycle
(1:25 AM) Thusness: almost 'be' in all 3 stages (waking, dream, deep sleep)
(1:25 AM) AEN: oic
(1:25 AM) AEN: wat u mean by cycles
(1:25 AM) Thusness: when u have a very deep sleep, what happened next morning?
(1:25 AM) AEN: very awake?
(1:25 AM) Thusness: what else?
(1:25 AM) AEN: mind is clear?
(1:25 AM) AEN: dunno
(1:25 AM) Thusness: continue... right
(1:26 AM) AEN: the mind becomes less active?
(1:26 AM) Thusness: awake, clear, fresh, energetic, vibrant
(1:26 AM) AEN: icic
(1:26 AM) Thusness: aren't that the seven factors?
(1:26 AM) AEN: oic..
(1:26 AM) AEN: ya
(1:27 AM) Thusness: for a non-dual experiencer, the next day is even so.
(1:27 AM) Thusness: the intensity is even more fantastic
(1:27 AM) AEN: icic..
(1:27 AM) Thusness: if this is continuously sustained, will the sleep naturally be shortened?
(1:28 AM) AEN: ya
(1:28 AM) Thusness: isn't it natural?
(1:28 AM) AEN: yes
(1:28 AM) AEN: icic
(1:28 AM) Thusness: isn't the seven factors of enlightenment maintained?
(1:28 AM) AEN: ya
(1:28 AM) Thusness: so know that what is right and correctly discerned.
(1:28 AM) AEN: oic..
(1:29 AM) Thusness: buddha's depth of clarity is unsurpassed
(1:29 AM) AEN: icic..
(1:29 AM) Thusness: we cannot compare one that has reached that stage of clarity
(1:29 AM) AEN: o ya my shi fu also said if u shi shui fei shui next day u will wake up more refresh and clear
(1:30 AM) AEN: oic
(1:30 AM) Thusness: but that must be taught correctly
(1:30 AM) Thusness: first go into deep sleep
(1:30 AM) AEN: icic
(1:30 AM) Thusness: this cannot be misunderstood
(1:30 AM) AEN: oic
(1:30 AM) Thusness: it will lead to wrong misunderstanding
(1:31 AM) Thusness: thinking that one has achieved certain stage
(1:31 AM) Thusness: in fact that is a retrogress.
(1:31 AM) AEN: icic
(1:31 AM) Thusness: our pristine nature has given us the grace to completely let go, to return, to be original
(1:31 AM) Thusness: our propensities prevents the seeing
(1:32 AM) AEN: oic
(1:32 AM) Thusness: but the effect of renewal is there.
(1:32 AM) Thusness: a person is unable to 'see' with at the conscious level.
(1:32 AM) Thusness: but denying it is ignorance.
(1:32 AM) AEN: icic..
(1:33 AM) Thusness: not a million in one can completely let go.
(1:33 AM) Thusness: yet we denied ourselves the only time that we can. :)
(1:33 AM) Thusness: this has to be understood.
(1:33 AM) AEN: icic..
(1:33 AM) Thusness: one in a million...hehee
(1:33 AM) Thusness: opposite
(1:33 AM) Thusness: ekekeke
(1:34 AM) AEN: wahahaha
(1:34 AM) Thusness: :P
(1:34 AM) Thusness: from day one till now whether u tok about replacing sleep with meditation, i told u no.
(1:35 AM) AEN: icic..
(1:35 AM) Thusness: u must know that it is no compare.
(1:35 AM) Thusness: just that i din tell u why.
(1:35 AM) AEN: oic..
(1:35 AM) Thusness: it is especially important for non dual practitioner.
(1:35 AM) AEN: icic..
(1:36 AM) Thusness: but due to the presence and new found clarity, a person that experience stage 1-3 might face this problem.
(1:36 AM) AEN: oic..
(1:36 AM) Thusness: not to be misled and misinterpret.
(1:36 AM) AEN: icic
(1:37 AM) Thusness: i have always told u to measure in terms of clarity, vitality and luminosity
(1:37 AM) Thusness: or the seven factors of enlightenment
(1:37 AM) AEN: oic..
(1:37 AM) Thusness: that can be used as a form of measurement
(1:38 AM) AEN: icic
(1:41 AM) Thusness: i got to go liao
(1:41 AM) Thusness: take care. :)
