My mom asked me how she should practice. I translated the following for her:

[11/1/24, 11:44:21 PM] Soh Wei Yu: ”For the purposes of contemplation for the first breakthrough awakening (the I AM), this pointer by Angelo Dillulo (author of Awake: It’s Your Turn, he also realised deep insights further than the initial awakening and his pointers are clear) is important:

“Inquiry for First Awakening

The inquiry that leads to first awakening is a funny thing. We want to know “how” precisely to do that inquiry, which is completely understandable. The thing is that it’s not wholly conveyable by describing a certain technique. Really it’s a matter of finding that sweet spot where surrender and intention meet. I will describe an approach here, but it’s important to keep in mind that in the end, you don’t have the power (as what you take yourself to be) to wake yourself up. Only Life has that power. So as we give ourselves to a certain inquiry or practice it’s imperative that we remain open. We have to keep the portals open to mystery, and possibility. We have to recognize that the constant concluding that “no this isn’t it, no this isn’t it either...” is simply the activity of the mind. Those are thoughts. If we believe a single thought then we will believe the next one and on and on. If however we recognize that, “oh that doubt is simply a thought arising now,” then we have the opportunity to recognize that that thought will subside on its own... and yet “I” as the knower of that thought am still here! We can now become fascinated with what is here once that thought (or any thought) subsides. What is in this gap between thoughts? What is this pure sense of I, pure sense of knowing, pure sense of Being? What is this light that can shine on and illuminate a thought (as it does thousands of times per day), and yet still shines when no thought is present. It is self illuminating. What is the nature of the one that notices thoughts, is awake and aware before, during, and after a thought, and is not altered in any way by any thought? Please understand that when you ask these questions you are not looking for a thought answer, the answer is the experience itself.

When we start to allow our attention to relax into this wider perspective we start to unbind ourselves from thought. We begin to recognize the nature of unbound consciousness by feel, by instinct. This is the way in.

At first we may conclude that this gap, this thoughtless consciousness is uninteresting, unimportant. It feels quite neutral, and the busy mind can’t do anything with neutral so we might be inclined to purposely engage thoughts again. If we recognize that “not interesting, not important, not valuable” are all thoughts and simply return to this fluid consciousness, it will start to expand. But there is no need to think about expansion or watch for it. It will do this naturally if we stay with it. If you are willing to recognize every thought and image in the mind as such, and keep your attention alert but relaxed into the “stuff” of thought that is continuous with the sense of I, it will all take care of itself. Just be willing to suspend judgement. Be willing to forego conclusions. Be willing to let go of all monitoring of your progress, because these are all thoughts. Be open to the pure experience. Just return again and again to this place of consciousness with no object or pure sense of I Am. If you are willing to do this it will teach itself to you in a way that neither I nor anyone I’ve ever seen can explain, but it is more real than real.

Happy Travels.

Art by: Platon Yurich””

[11/1/24, 11:44:23 PM] Soh Wei Yu: chatgpt translation:

[11/1/24, 11:47:56 PM] Soh Wei Yu: 为了第一层觉醒的冥想目的，Angelo Dillulo（《觉醒：轮到你了》的作者，他还实现了比最初的觉醒更深刻的洞察，他的指点非常清晰）的这个指点很重要：


“第一层觉醒的探究


通往第一层觉醒的探究是一件有趣的事情。我们想知道“如何”准确地进行这种探究，这是完全可以理解的。问题在于，它不是通过描述某种特定技巧就可以完全传达的。实际上，它是在投降和意图相遇的那个甜蜜点中找到的。我在这里将描述一种方法，但重要的是要记住，最终，你没有能力（作为你认为的自己）来唤醒自己。只有生命有那种能力。所以当我们投入到某种探究或实践时，保持开放非常重要。我们必须保持神秘和可能性的通道敞开。我们必须认识到，不断地下结论“不，这不是，不，这也不是……”仅仅是心智的活动。那些都是思想。如果我们相信一个想法，那么我们就会相信下一个，如此这般。然而，如果我们认识到，“哦，那种怀疑仅仅是现在出现的一个想法”，那么我们就有机会认识到，那个想法会自行消退……而“我”作为那个想法的知晓者，仍然在这里！我们现在可以对思想消退后的这里所呈现的东西感到着迷。思想间隙中是什么？这种纯粹的自我感、纯粹的知觉、纯粹的存在是什么？这种能照亮思想的光（如同每天成千上万次那样），即使没有思想也依然发光。它是自我照明的。注意到思想、在思想前后醒着、清明、和觉知到的那个，不被任何思想以任何方式改变的本质是什么？请理解，当你提出这些问题时，你不是在寻找一个思想上的答案，答案是体验本身。

当我们开始让我们的注意力放松到这个更广阔的视角时，我们开始解绑自己脱离思想。我们开始通过感觉、通过本能，认识到未束缚本觉的本质。这是进入的方式。

起初，我们可能会得出结论，这个间隙，这个无思想的本觉是无趣的、不重要的。它感觉相当中性，而忙碌的头脑无法处理中性，所以我们可能倾向于故意再次参与思想。如果我们认识到“不有趣，不重要，不有价值”都是思想，并简单地返回到这个流动的净识，它将开始扩张。但不需要考虑扩张或观察它。如果我们与之保持一致，它会自然地这样做。如果你愿意将脑海中的每一个想法和图像识别为这样，并保持你的注意力警醒但放松进入与本我感觉连续的“思想的东西”，一切都会自行照顾。


只需愿意暂停判断。愿意放弃结论。愿意放弃对你进展的所有监控，因为这些都是想法。对纯粹的体验保持开放。只是一次又一次地回到没有对象的本觉或纯粹的本我的净识之处。如果你愿意这样做，它会以一种我或我所见过的任何人都无法解释的方式教会你自己，但它比实际更真实。

旅途愉快。


艺术由：Platon Yurich 创作"

[11/1/24, 11:48:08 PM] Soh Wei Yu: you must have quality hours to meditate and practice the above everyday

[11/1/24, 11:48:30 PM] Soh Wei Yu: full translation of the whole article, from very long ago:

[12/1/24, 12:17:21 AM] Soh Wei Yu: full article:
Gap Between Thoughts, Thought Between Gaps



Based on some conversations earlier this year and last year by Thusness/PasserBy which I have slightly edited:

First experience the Isness of the gap between 2 moments of thought, then the Isness of the thought between 2 moments of gap.

~ Thusness/PasserBy

On the realization of luminosity in the gap between thoughts, this conversation in 2005 is relevant:





[23:23] <ZeN`n1th> Dzogchen teacher Tenzin Wangyal (1997, 29) points out:

[23:23] <ZeN`n1th> The gap between two thoughts is essence. But if in that gap there is a lack of presence, it becomes ignorance and we experience only a lack of awareness, almost an unconsciousness. If there is presence in the gap, then we experience the dharmakaya [the ultimate].

[23:24] <ZeN`n1th> so presence is the awareness?

[23:24] <ZeN`n1th> nice quote , anyway

[23:24] <ZeN`n1th> anyway u were saying about the "i"... so what do u mean?

[23:24] <^john^> without presence, it is absorption

[23:25] <^john^> very well said, where u get this quote. 🙂


…



However, beyond that initial awakening, we must also understand the following.

When we discriminate between awareness from thoughts, awareness appears as the 'space' behind and between thoughts. And because of discriminating awareness and content thinking, the behind background reality is preferred over content, so background awareness appears as 'awakening' -- but it is really only treating a particular speck of dust as mirror and thus unable to see all as mirror... and so instead of being 'awakening' it is actually being 'lost'. That experience is just a dimension of Presence... but due to deeply rooted habitual tendencies to grasp dualistically, one tightly clings to the 'background subject'. That is, Presence is mistaken as a true Subject or True Self behind all objects, as some kind of unchanging background. Or it becomes the Eternal Witness perceiving (dispassionately) and untouched by all impermanent objects coming and going (where in reality the knowingness cannot be separated from the flow of phenomenality). (See Stage One of Thusness/PasserBy's Seven Stages of Enlightenment) But it is not the entirety of Presence -- the aspect of non-dual, Anatta (no-self), Emptiness and Dependent Origination are not included. Because of this, it is difficult to see that the five aggregates (the 'heaps' of experiences that are designated as 'self': forms, feelings, perceptions, volition and consciousness) are Buddha-Nature.

When we talk about naked awareness it is not a state where not even a single thought arise. When it is taught about the gap between 2 moments of thought, it is to first have an experience of the nakedness of awareness. To touch just that aspect of awareness. When we extend the gaps, our thoughts become less and clarity becomes more obvious.

However it will come to a time that no matter what is done, how much effort is being invested, how long, the other aggregates do not subside. This then is the crucial moment whether one can break through into non-duality (of subject and object).

Awareness is a seamless experience that is non-dual in nature. In this seamless experience, there is no boundary whatsoever, no experiencer experiencing experience; whatever arises is experience, is awareness -- as the sound of birds chirping, as words appearing on the screen, as the thoughts itself. There is no separate hearer, seer, watcher, observer, thinker. Everything is shining, self-felt, self-knowing, self-luminous, without a center. It is always just spontaneous arising and ceasing. There is no center, agent, boundary, inside or outside... merely a seamless whole experience.

Whether perception or no perception, whether momentum or no momentum, whether there are thoughts or no thoughts, it doesn't matter. That is the arising of the non-dual wisdom, with the understanding that the transience are the Presence.

Then no thoughts and thoughts are thoroughly understood. When no thoughts and thoughts are clearly understood, it becomes Gap-less. That is true effortlessness and is the pathless path without entry and exit.

Going before the arising of thoughts and perception and have a glimpse of that luminous nature is simply just a glimpse. Here lies the importance of “concentration & absorption” in spiritual practices. It is also true that the strength of uninterrupted concentration may not be there even for one with insights, and it has to go hand in hand with their new found insight of nonduality for stability, and also move into various graduation of nonduality. In truth, there are no stages/appearances that are purer than any others – every state is equally pure and non-dual in nature. When the mind grasps pure awareness as ‘formless’, ‘thoughtless’, ‘attributeless’, and as the background reality.... the ‘fabric’ and ‘texture’ of pristine awareness as ‘forms’ is then missed. Nevertheless, for the first 3 (Thusness’s) stages of experience in Thusness/PasserBy's Seven Stages of Enlightenment - https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2007/03/thusnesss-six-stages-of-experience.html, the problem would certainly be the lack of sustained meditation concentration as well as the tendency of trying to grasp intellectually... which is also why Thusness often emphasizes the importance of sitting. That is apart from the lack of clear and deeper insight into the nature of awareness which will lead to the effortless and self-liberating actualization of total presence or empty clarity.

The first 3 stages are before the arising of non-dual insight and the purpose of sustainability is to create sufficient gap between 2 moments of thoughts to allow the sensation of contrast between conceptual/non-conceptuality for the thinking mind to realize the possibility of going pre-symbolic thereby loosening its stubborn grips of a dualistic framework.

Sustained bare attention also gave rise to the realization that ‘inner’, ‘outer’, ‘space’, ‘time’ and even ‘body’ and ‘mind’ are all mere constructs. Freeing from these constructs, also give rise to the condition for non-dual insight to arise.

For the first 3 stages, practice takes the form of striving towards a certain stage of perfection whereas Thusness stage 4 onwards, practice moves from ‘efforting’ to natural luminosity and spontaneity. Even so, meditation is still very important as explained in Meditation after Anatta https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2023/09/meditation-after-anatta.html .

If a practitioner mistakes that initial glimpse (such as the I AM awakening of Stage 1) as the entirety of Buddha Nature by maintaining the mirror bright and attempt to go after that particular state, it will eventually proof futile. If we see only the realm of no-thought, then the gap between two moments will eventually becomes an obstruction.

Then the practice becomes the thought moment between two moments of gaps. To experience that luminous empty essence of that thought. It is in essence clarity, awareness itself, and is empty. The waves and the ocean are one and the same. All waves are One Taste. Experiencing Isness as an ocean and shunning away thoughts and manifestation is equally lost, the further insight (insight into non-duality) is the insight into everything as self-luminous awareness or Mind. smile.gif

However, start by practicing the gap between 2 moments of thought and expand it but with the right understanding of no-self/non-duality. Then when the luminosity shines, it will gradually understand because it knows what blocks. When it tries all its best to do away the transients and yet the transients persist, one will have to wait for the right condition to come, such as having someone to point out or some verses that serves as a condition for awakening.

So first experience the Isness of the gap between 2 moments of thought, then the Isness of the thought between 2 moments of gap.

Excerpt from Pointing Out Innate Thinking:

"Is it an aware emptiness after the thought has dissolved? Or is it an aware emptiness by driving away the thought from meditation? Or, is the vividness of the thought itself an aware emptiness?"

If the meditator says it is like one of the first two cases, he had not cleared up the former uncertainties and should therefore be set to resolve this for a few days.

On the other hand, if he personally experiences it to be like the latter case, he has seen identity of thought and can therefore be given the following pointing-out instruction:

"When you look into a thought's identity, without having to dissolve the thought and without having to force it out by meditation, the vividness of the thought is itself the indescribable and naked state of aware emptiness. We call this seeing the natural face of innate thought or thought dawns as dharmakaya.

"Previously, when you determined the thought's identity and when you investigated the calm and the moving mind, you found that there was nothing other than this intangible single mind that is a self-knowing, natural awareness. It is just like the analogy of water and waves."

~ 14th Century Mahamudra Master, Dakpo Tashi Namgyal


"When you vividly perceive a mountain or a house, no matter how this perception appears, it does not need to disappear or be stopped. Rather, while this perception is experienced, it is itself an intangible, empty awareness. This is called seeing the identity of perception."


"Previously you cleared up uncertainties when you looked into the identity of a perception and resolved that perceptions are mind. Accordingly, the perception is not outside and the mind is not inside. It is merely, and nothing other than, this empty and aware mind that appears as a perception. It is exactly like the example of a dream-object and the dreaming mind.

"From the very moment a perception occurs, it is a naturally freed and intangible perceiving emptiness. This perceiving yet intangible and naked state of empty perception is called seeing the natural face of innate perception or perception dawning as dharmakaya.

"This being so, 'empty' isn't something better and 'perceiving' isn't something worse, and perceiving and being empty are not separate entities. So, you can continue training in whatever is experienced. When perceiving, in order to deliberately train in perception, there is no need to arrest it. When empty, in order to deliberately train in emptiness, you do not need to produce it.

- Clarifying the Natural State, Dakpo Tashi Namgyal

Dzogchen Master Chogyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche:

http://www.fudomouth.net/rhizome/nnawareness.htm

Even if those who begin to practice this find it difficult to continue in this state for more than an instant, there is no need to worry about it. Without wishing for the state to continue for a long time and without fearing the lack of it altogether, all that is necessary is to maintain pure presence of mind, without falling into the dualistic situation of there being an observing subject perceiving an observed object. If the mind, even though one maintains simple presence, does not remain in this calm state, but always tends to follow waves of thoughts about the past or future, or becomes distracted by the aggregates of the senses such as sight, hearing, etc., then one should try to understand that the wave of thought itself is as insubstantial as the wind. If one tries to catch the wind, one does not succeed; similarly if one tries to block the wave of thought, it cannot be cut off. So for this reason one should not try to block thought, much less try to renounce it as something considered negative. In reality, the calm state is the essential condition of mind, while the wave of thought is the mind's natural clarity in function; just as there is no distinction whatever between the sun and its rays, or a stream and its ripples, so there is no distinction between the mind and thought. If one considers the calm state as something positive to be attained, and the wave of thought as something negative to be abandoned, and one remains thus caught up in the duality of accepting and rejecting, there is no way of overcoming the ordinary state of mind.

Shurangama Sutra:

"Ananda, you have not yet understood that all the defiling objects that appear, all the illusory, ephemeral phenomena, spring up in the very spot where they also come to an end. Their phenomena aspects are illusory and false, but their nature is in truth the bright substance of wonderful enlightenment. Thus it is throughout, up to the five skandhas and the six entrances, to the twelve places and the eighteen realms; the union and mixture of various causes and conditions account for their illusory and false existence, and the separation and dispersion of the causes and conditions result in their illusory and false extinction. Who would have thought that production and extinction, coming and going are fundamentally the eternal wonderful light of the Tathagata, the unmoving, all-pervading perfection, the wonderful nature of True Suchness! If within the true and eternal nature one seeks coming and going, confusion and enlightenment, or birth and death, one will never find them."

.

.

"You still have not realized that in the Treasury of the Tathagata, the nature of form is true emptiness and the nature of emptiness is true form. That fundamental purity pervades the Dharma Realm. Beings’ minds absorb itaccording to their capacity to know. Whatever manifests does so in compliance with karma. Ignorant of that fact, people of the world are so deluded as to assign its origin to causes and conditions or to spontaneity. These mistakes, which arise from the discriminations and reasoning processes of the mind, are nothing but the play of empty and meaningless words."

Lama Surya Das:

http://www.dzogchen.org/teachings/talks/dtalk-95may22.html

I think this five skandha scheme is a very interesting one, in the sense that it can begin to raise some very interesting questions and help us dig deeper, rather than just having a vague, amorphous kind of understanding. We are individual. We are each responsible for ourselves and our karma and our relations. Our individuality is comprised of these five aggregates or skandhas. We can work with that. It is actually an expression of the Buddha-nature.

Now, doesn't anybody want to say, "I didn't hear anything about Buddha-nature in the five skandhas. Where's the Buddha-nature? Who made that up?" That's the right question. What Buddha-nature? I never said anything about it. Who made that up? What enlightenment? What nirvana? Who made all that stuff up? Is it in us or elsewhere? How to get from "here" to "there"?

We're all looking for something to hang our hopes on, but when we really get down to the present moment, to our own experience, to clear seeing, we come to what Buddha said: "In hearing there is only hearing; no one hearing and nothing heard." There is just that moment, that hearing. You might think, "Oh, a beautiful bird." How do you know it's a bird? It might be a tape recorder. It might be bicycle brakes squeaking. In the first moment, there is just hearing, then we get busy, our minds and concepts get involved. The Buddha went through all the five senses. "In seeing there is just seeing; no one seeing and nothing seen." And so on, with tasting, touching, smelling, and thinking. Thoughts without a thinker. In thinking there is just thinking. There is just that momentary process. There is no thinker. The notion of an inner thinker is just a thought. We imagine that there is somebody thinking. It's like the Wizard of Oz. They thought there was this glorious wizard, but it was just a little man back there behind the screen, behind the veil. That's how it is with the ego. We think there's a great big monkey inside working the five windows, the five senses. Or maybe five monkeys, one for each sense; a whole chattering monkey house, which it sometimes feels like. But is there really a concrete individual or permanent soul inside at all? It seems more like that the lights are on, but no one is home!
Labels: I AMness, Non Dual, Thought |

[12/1/24, 12:17:28 AM] Soh Wei Yu: chatgpt translation:

[12/1/24, 12:29:50 AM] Soh Wei Yu: 思想间隙与间隙中的思想

基于今年早些时候和去年的一些对话，由Thusness/PasserBy提出，我稍作编辑：


首先体验两个思想瞬间之间的本觉间隙，然后体验两个间隙之间的思想的本觉。


~ Thusness/PasserBy



关于在思想间隙中实现光明性，2005年的这段对话很相关：


[23:23] <ZeN`n1th> 大圆满老师Tenzin Wangyal（1997，29）指出：

[23:23] <ZeN`n1th> 两个思想之间的间隙是本质。但如果在那个间隙中缺乏临在明觉，就变成无知，我们只体验到缺乏本觉，几乎是无意识。如果间隙中有临在明觉，那么我们就体验到了法身[终极]。


[23:24] <ZeN`n1th> 所以临在明觉是本觉？

[23:24] <^john^> 没有临在明觉，就只是定境

[23:25] <^john^> 说得很好，这引用哪里来的？🙂


为了第一层觉醒的冥想目的，Angelo Dillulo（《觉醒：轮到你了》的作者，他还实现了比最初的觉醒更深刻的洞察，他的指点非常清晰）的这个指点很重要：


“第一层觉醒的探究

通往第一层觉醒的探究是一件有趣的事情。我们想知道“如何”准确地进行这种探究，这是完全可以理解的。问题在于，它不是通过描述某种特定技巧就可以完全传达的。实际上，它是在投降和意图相遇的那个甜蜜点中找到的。我在这里将描述一种方法，但重要的是要记住，最终，你没有能力（作为你认为的自己）来唤醒自己。只有生命有那种能力。所以当我们投入到某种探究或实践时，保持开放非常重要。我们必须保持神秘和可能性的通道敞开。我们必须认识到，不断地下结论“不，这不是，不，这也不是……”仅仅是心智的活动。那些都是思想。如果我们相信一个想法，那么我们就会相信下一个，如此这般。然而，如果我们认识到，“哦，那种怀疑仅仅是现在出现的一个想法”，那么我们就有机会认识到，那个想法会自行消退……而“我”作为那个想法的知晓者，仍然在这里！我们现在可以对思想消退后的这里所呈现的东西感到着迷。思想间隙中是什么？这种纯粹的自我感、纯粹的知觉、纯粹的存在是什么？这种能照亮思想的光（如同每天成千上万次那样），即使没有思想也依然发光。它是自我照明的。注意到思想、在思想前后醒着、清明、和觉知到的那个，不被任何思想以任何方式改变的本质是什么？请理解，当你提出这些问题时，你不是在寻找一个思想上的答案，答案是体验本身。

当我们开始让我们的注意力放松到这个更广阔的视角时，我们开始解绑自己脱离思想。我们开始通过感觉、通过本能，认识到未束缚本觉的本质。这是进入的方式。

起初，我们可能会得出结论，这个间隙，这个无思想的本觉是无趣的、不重要的。它感觉相当中性，而忙碌的头脑无法处理中性，所以我们可能倾向于故意再次参与思想。如果我们认识到“不有趣，不重要，不有价值”都是思想，并简单地返回到这个流动的净识，它将开始扩张。但不需要考虑扩张或观察它。如果我们与之保持一致，它会自然地这样做。如果你愿意将脑海中的每一个想法和图像识别为这样，并保持你的注意力警醒但放松进入与本我感觉连续的“思想的东西”，一切都会自行照顾。


只需愿意暂停判断。愿意放弃结论。愿意放弃对你进展的所有监控，因为这些都是想法。对纯粹的体验保持开放。只是一次又一次地回到没有对象的本觉或纯粹的本我的净识之处。如果你愿意这样做，它会以一种我或我所见过的任何人都无法解释的方式教会你自己，但它比实际更真实。

旅途愉快。

艺术由：Platon Yurich 创作"



然而，超越最初的觉醒，我们还必须理解以下内容。

当我们区分本觉和思想时，本觉似乎是思想背后和之间的“虚空”。由于区分了本觉和内容思维，背景现实比内容更受青睐，所以背景本觉看起来像是“觉醒”——但实际上只是将特定的尘埃当作镜子，因此无法看到一切都是镜子……因此，它并不是“觉醒”，而实际上是“迷失”。这种体验只是临在明觉的一个维度……但由于根深蒂固的习惯性双向抓取，一个紧紧抓住“背景主体”。也就是说，临在明觉被误认为是所有对象背后的真实主体或真我，某种不变的背景。或者它变成了永恒的见证者（无动于衷地）观察并且不受所有无常对象来来去去的影响（实际上，认知不能与现象流动分离）。（见Thusness/PasserBy的“觉悟的七个阶段”中的第一阶段）但这不是临在明觉的全部——非二元、无我（无自性）、空性和缘起的方面并未包括在内。因此，很难看到五蕴（被指定为“自我”的体验的“五蕴”：色、受、想、行、识）是佛性。

当我们谈论赤裸的本觉时，这不是一个连一个思想都不出现的状态。当教导关于两个思想瞬间之间的间隙时，首先是体验本觉的赤裸。触及本觉的那个方面。当我们扩大间隙时，我们的思想变得更少，清晰变得更明显。

然而，会有一个时刻，无论做什么，投入多少努力，多久，其他蕴不会消退。这就是一个关键时刻，无论一个人能否突破到主客非二元。

本觉是一种无二元性质的无缝体验。在这种无缝体验中，没有任何边界，没有经验者体验经验；无论出现什么都是经验，都是本觉——如鸟儿的啼鸣，屏幕上出现的文字，思想本身。没有分离的听者、看者、观察者、思考者。一切都在发光，自觉，自知，自己发光，没有中心。它总是只是自发的产生和消失。没有中心、主体、边界、内外......只是无缝的整体体验。

无论是感知还是无感知，无论是动量（业力的流动）还是无动量，无论有没有思想，都无关紧要。这是非二元智慧的出现，理解瞬息即是临在明觉。

然后无思想和思想被彻底理解。当无思想和思想被清楚理解时，就变成了无间隙。这是真正的无功夫，是无入无出的无门之道。

走在思想和感知产生之前，瞥见那光明的本质只是一个瞥见。这就是“专注与修定”在灵性实践中的重要性所在。也确实，即使对于有洞见的人，不间断的专注力可能也不在那里，它必须与他们新发现的非二元洞见并行以获得稳定，并且还要进入非二元的各种毕业阶段。实际上，没有任何阶段/表象比其他更纯净——每个状态都同样纯净，本质上是非二元的。当心灵把纯净的本觉视为“无形态”、“无思想”、“无属性”，作为背景现实时......纯净本觉作为“形态”的“织物”和“质地”就被忽略了。尽管如此，对于Thusness/PasserBy的“觉悟的七个阶段”中的前三个阶段 - https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2007/03/thusnesss-six-stages-of-experience.html，问题肯定是缺乏持续的冥想专注力以及试图理智把握的倾向......这也是为什么Thusness经常强调打坐的重要性。这是由于对本觉本质缺乏清晰和更深的洞察，这将导致临在明觉或空明的无功夫和自我解放的实现。


前三个阶段是在非二元洞见出现之前，持续性的目的是在两个思想瞬间之间创造足够的间隙，以允许概念性/非概念性之间的对比感觉，使思维头脑意识到进入象征之前的可能性，从而放松其顽固的双向框架。

持续的赤裸注意也引起了“内部”、“外部”、“空间”、“时间”甚至“身体”和“心”都是单纯构造的认识。从这些构造中解脱，也为非二元洞见的出现创造了条件。

对于前三个阶段，实践采取的形式是努力达到某种完美的阶段，而Thusness第四阶段以后，实践从“努力”转向自然的光明性和自发性。即使如此，冥想仍然非常重要，正如在《无我之后的冥想》https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2023/09/meditation-after-anatta.html 中所解释的。

如果修行者错误地将最初的一瞥（如第一阶段的我是觉醒）误认为是佛性的全部，并试图维持那个明亮的镜子，追求那个特定的状态，最终将证明是徒劳的。如果我们只看到无思想的境界，那么两个瞬间之间的间隙最终将成为障碍。

然后实践变成了两个间隙之间的思想瞬间。体验那个思想的光明空性本质。本质上它是清晰的，是本觉本身，是空的。波浪和海洋是一体的。所有波浪都是一味。体验本觉如海洋，并回避思想和色相同样是迷失，更深的洞见（洞见非二元）是将一切视为自光明的本觉或心的洞见。:)

然而，首先练习两个思想瞬间之间的间隙，并扩大它，但要有无我/非二元的正确理解。然后当光明照耀时，它将逐渐理解，因为它知道什么是障碍。当它尽其所能去除瞬息而瞬息仍然存在时，一个人将不得不等待正确的条件出现，比如有人指出或一些作为觉醒条件的经文。


所以首先体验两个思想瞬间之间的本觉间隙，然后体验两个间隙之间的思想的本觉。


摘自《指出内在思考》：


“思想消融后是一个觉知的空性吗？还是通过冥想驱走思想而成为一个觉知的空性？或者，思想的生动本身就是一个觉知的空性？”

如果冥想者说它像前两种情况之一，他还没有澄清之前的不确定性，因此应该设定几天来解决这个问题。

另一方面，如果他亲自体验到像后一种情况，他就看到了思想的本质，因此可以给他以下指示：


“当你探究思想的本质时，无需消融思想，也无需通过冥想强行排除它，思想的生动本身就是无法描述和赤裸的觉知空性（空明）。我们称之为看见内在思考的自然面貌或思考如法身显现。


“之前，当你确定思想的本质，当你调查宁静和动态的心时，你发现除了这个无形的、自知的、自然的觉知之外，没有别的。就像水和波浪的比喻一样。”


~ 14世纪大手印大师，Dakpo Tashi Namgyal


“当你生动地感知一座山或一座房子时，无论这种感知如何出现，它不需要消失或被停止。相反，当这种感知被体验时，它本身就是一种无形、空的觉知。这被称为看见感知的本质。”


“之前你在探究感知的本质时澄清了不确定性，并解决了感知即心的问题。因此，感知不在外面，心不在里面。它只是，也不过是，这个空而觉知的心以感知的形式出现。就像梦中物和做梦的心的例子一样。

“从感知发生的那一刻起，它就是一种自然解脱的、无形的感知空性。这种感知而无形和赤裸的空感知状态被称为看见内在感知的自然面貌或感知如法身显现。

“正因为如此，‘空’不是更好的东西，‘感知’不是更糟的东西，感知和空不是分离的实体。所以，你可以继续在任何经验中修炼。当感知时，为了有意识地训练感知，无需阻止它。当空时，为了有意识地训练空性，你不需要产生它。”


澄清自然状态，Dakpo Tashi Namgyal

大圆满大师Chogyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche：


http://www.fudomouth.net/rhizome/nnawareness.htm

即使那些开始练习的人发现很难持续这种状态超过一瞬间，也不必担心。无需希望状态持续很长时间，也不必害怕完全缺乏它，只需保持纯粹的心灵临在明觉，不陷入观察主体感知被观察对象的二元境况。如果心灵即使保持简单的临在明觉，也无法保持这种平静状态，而总是倾向于追随关于过去或未来的思想波浪，或者被视觉、听觉等感官的蕴所分散，那么就应该理解思想波浪本身就像风一样无实质。如果一个人试图抓住风，他是不会成功的；同样，如果一个人试图阻止思想波浪，它也无法被切断。因此，不应该试图阻止思想，更不用说把它当作负面的东西来放弃。实际上，平静状态是心的本质条件，而思想波浪是心自然清晰的功能；就像太阳与其光线、溪流与其涟漪之间没有任何区别一样，心和思想之间也没有区别。如果一个人认为平静状态是要达到的积极状态，而思想波浪是要抛弃的消极状态，并因此陷入接受和拒绝的二元对立中，就无法克服普通心态。


楞严经：


“阿难！汝犹未明一切浮尘诸幻化相当处出生、随处灭尽、幻妄称相，其性真为妙觉明体；如是乃至五阴六入，从十二处至十八界，因缘和合，虚妄有生；因缘别离，虚妄名灭；殊不能知生灭去来本如来藏常住妙明、不动周圆妙真如性；性真常中，求于去来迷悟死生，了无所得。”


“汝元不知如来藏中，性色真空，性空真色，清净本然，周遍法界。随众生心，应所知量，循业发现。世间无知，惑为因缘及自然性。皆是识心分别计度。但有言说，都无实义。”


喇嘛苏里亚·达斯：

http://www.dzogchen.org/teachings/talks/dtalk-95may22.html


我认为这个五蕴的概念是非常有趣的，因为它可以开始提出一些非常有趣的问题，帮助我们更深入地挖掘，而不仅仅是拥有一个模糊、无形的理解。我们是个体。我们每个人都对自己、我们的业力和我们的关系负责。我们的个体性由这五蕴或蕴组成。我们可以利用这一点。这实际上是佛性的表达。


现在，没有人想说，“我没听到五蕴里有佛性。佛性在哪里？是谁编造的？”那是正确的问题。什么佛性？我从没说过它。是谁编造的？什么觉悟？什么涅槃？都是谁编造的？它在我们内部还是其他地方？如何从“这里”到“那里”？


我们都在寻找某些可以寄托希望的东西，但当我们真正深入到当前时刻、到我们自己的体验、到清晰的看见时，我们来到了佛陀所说的：“在听觉中，只有听觉；没有听者和被听之物。”只有那一刻，那种听觉。你可能会想，“哦，一只美丽的鸟。”你怎么知道是鸟？可能是录音机。可能是自行车刹车吱吱作响。在第一刻，只有听觉，然后我们开始忙碌，我们的心智和概念开始介入。佛陀经历了所有五感。“在看见中，只有看见；没有看者和被看之物。”等等，涉及品尝、触摸、闻味、思考。无思者的思想。在思考中，只有思考。只有那一刻的过程。没有思者。内在思者的概念只是一个想法。我们想象有人在思考。就像《绿野仙踪》里的巫师。他们以为那里有一个辉煌的巫师，但那只是幕后的一个小人，就在屏幕后面，幕布后面。就像自我一样。我们以为里面有一个大猩猩在操作五个窗户，五种感觉。或者可能是五个猩猩，每种感觉一个；一个喋喋不休的猴子屋，有时候感觉就是这样。但真的有一个具体的个体或永久的灵魂在里面吗？看起来更像是灯亮着，但没人在家！

Someone was into Zen and talked about I AM realization. I told him: 

I have sent you some links on private chat. What you realised sounds like the I AM realization of these links: 

https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2007/03/thusnesss-six-stages-of-experience.html

https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2007/03/mistaken-reality-of-amness.html

On anatta realisation: 

https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2009/03/on-anatta-emptiness-and-spontaneous.html

I AM is also just a starting point for zen

Eventually the zen masters guide you to the anatman realization

See https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2022/10/some-zen-masters-quotations-on-anatman.html

Some Zen Masters’ Quotations on Anatman

 Zen masters on Anatman and No Mind

A monk asked, ‘Master, why do you say that mind is Buddha?’

Mazu said, ‘To stop babies from crying.’

The monk said, ‘What do you say when they stop crying?’

Mazu said, ‘No mind, no Buddha.’

…

Zen master Munan said, “There is nothing to Buddhism—just see directly, hear directly.  When seeing directly, there is no seer; when hearing directly, there is no hearer.”

>Shidō Munan (至道無難, 1602-1676) was an early Tokugawa Zen master mostly active in Edo. He was the teacher of Shōju Rōjin, who is in turn considered the main teacher of Hakuin Ekaku. He is best known for the phrase that one must "die while alive," made famous by D.T. Suzuki.

….

Another Zen Master said,

'You get up in the morning, dress, wash your face, and so on; you call these miscellaneous thoughts, but all that is necessary is that there be no perceiver or perceived when you perceive—no hearer or heard when you hear, no thinker or thought when you think. Buddhism is very easy and very economical; it spares effort, but you yourself waste energy and make your own hardships.'

(Foyan Qingyuan, in Instant Zen, p 70)

...

At the time of his enlightenment, Zen Master Huangpo said, "When I hear the sound of the bell ringing, there is no bell, and also no I, only ringing-sound."

….

The myriad forms of the entire universe are the seal of the single Dharma. Whatever forms are seen are but the perception of mind. But mind is not independently existent. It is co-dependent with form.

- Zen Master Mazu

….

“But how could one [even] gain the ability to know that it is no-mind [that sees, hears, feels, and knows]?"

"Just try to find out in every detail: What appearance does mind have? And if it can be apprehended: is [what is apprehended] mind or not? Is [mind] inside or outside, or somewhere in between? As long as one looks for mind in these three locations, one's search will end in failure. Indeed, searching it anywhere will end in failure. That's exactly why it is known as no-mind."”

“At this, the disciple all at once greatly awakened and realized for the first time that there is no thing apart from mind, and no mind apart from things. All of his actions became utterly free. Having broken through the net of all doubt, he was freed of all obstruction.”

Doctrine of No Mind by Bodhidharma, see http://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2018/04/way-of-bodhi.html and http://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2018/11/the-doctrine-of-no-mind-by-bodhidharma.html

“Dissolving the Mind

enso.jpg

Though purifying mind is the essence of practicing the Way, it is not done by clinging at the mind as a glorified and absolute entity. It is not that one simply goes inward by rejecting the external world. It is not that the mind is pure and the world is impure. When mind is clear, the world is a pure-field. When mind is deluded, the world is Samsara. Bodhidharma said,

Seeing with insight, form is not simply form, because form depends on mind. And, mind is not simply mind, because mind depends on form. Mind and form create and negate each other.  …  Mind and the world are opposites, appearances arise where they meet. When your mind does not stir inside, the world does not arise outside. When the world and the mind are both transparent, this is the true insight.” (from the Wakeup Discourse)

Just like the masters of Madhyamaka, Bodhidharma too pointed out that mind and form are interdependently arising. Mind and form create each other. Yet, when you cling to form, you negate mind. And, when you cling to mind, you negate form. Only when such dualistic notions are dissolved, and only when both mind and the world are transparent (not turning to obstructing concepts) the true insight arises.

In this regard, Bodhidharma said,

Using the mind to look for reality is delusion. 

Not using the mind to look for reality is awareness.

(from the Wakeup Discourse)

So, to effectively enter the Way, one has to go beyond the dualities (conceptual constructs) of mind and form. As far as one looks for reality as an object of mind, one is still trapped in the net of delusion (of seeing mind and form as independent realities), never breaking free from it. In that way, one holds reality as something other than oneself, and even worse, one holds oneself as a spectator to a separate reality!

When the mind does not stir anymore and settles into its pristine clarity, the world does not stir outside. The reality is revealed beyond the divisions of Self and others, and mind and form.  Thus, as you learn not to use the mind to look for reality and simply rests in the natural state of mind as it is, there is the dawn of pristine awareness –  knowing reality as it is, non-dually and non-conceptually.

When the mind does not dissolve in this way to its original clarity, whatever one sees is merely the stirring of conceptuality. Even if we try to construct a Buddha’s mind, it only stirs and does not see reality. Because, the Buddha’s mind is simply the uncompounded clarity of Bodhi (awakening), free from stirring and constructions. So, Bodhidharma said,

That which ordinary knowledge understands is also said to be within the boundaries of the norms. When you do not produce the mind of a common man, or the mind of a sravaka or a bodhisattva, and when you do not even produce a Buddha-mind or any mind at all, then for the first time you can be said to have gone outside the boundaries of the norms. If no mind at all arises, and if you do not produce understanding nor give rise to delusion, then, for the first time, you can be said to have gone outside of everything. (From the Record #1, of the Collection of Bodhidharma’s Works3 retrieved from Dunhuang Caves)

“

…..

http://books.google.com.sg/books?id=H6A674nlkVEC&pg=PA21&lpg=PA21

From Bendowa, by Zen Master Dogen

Question Ten:

Some have said: Do not concern yourself about birth-and-death. There is a way to promptly rid yourself of birth-and-death. It is by grasping the reason for the eternal immutability of the 'mind-nature.' The gist of it is this: although once the body is born it proceeds inevitably to death, the mind-nature never perishes. Once you can realize that the mind-nature, which does not transmigrate in birth-and-death, exists in your own body, you make it your fundamental nature. Hence the body, being only a temporary form, dies here and is reborn there without end, yet the mind is immutable, unchanging throughout past, present, and future. To know this is to be free from birth-and-death. By realizing this truth, you put a final end to the transmigratory cycle in which you have been turning. When your body dies, you enter the ocean of the original nature. When you return to your origin in this ocean, you become endowed with the wondrous virtue of the Buddha-patriarchs. But even if you are able to grasp this in your present life, because your present physical existence embodies erroneous karma from prior lives, you are not the same as the sages.

"Those who fail to grasp this truth are destined to turn forever in the cycle of birth-and-death. What is necessary, then, is simply to know without delay the meaning of the mind-nature's immutability. What can you expect to gain from idling your entire life away in purposeless sitting?"

What do you think of this statement? Is it essentially in accord with the Way of the Buddhas and patriarchs?

Answer 10:

You have just expounded the view of the Senika heresy. It is certainly not the Buddha Dharma.

According to this heresy, there is in the body a spiritual intelligence. As occasions arise this intelligence readily discriminates likes and dislikes and pros and cons, feels pain and irritation, and experiences suffering and pleasure - it is all owing to this spiritual intelligence. But when the body perishes, this spiritual intelligence separates from the body and is reborn in another place. While it seems to perish here, it has life elsewhere, and thus is immutable and imperishable. Such is the standpoint of the Senika heresy.

But to learn this view and try to pass it off as the Buddha Dharma is more foolish than clutching a piece of broken roof tile supposing it to be a golden jewel. Nothing could compare with such a foolish, lamentable delusion. Hui-chung of the T'ang dynasty warned strongly against it. Is it not senseless to take this false view - that the mind abides and the form perishes - and equate it to the wondrous Dharma of the Buddhas; to think, while thus creating the fundamental cause of birth-and-death, that you are freed from birth-and-death? How deplorable! Just know it for a false, non-Buddhist view, and do not lend a ear to it.

I am compelled by the nature of the matter, and more by a sense of compassion, to try to deliver you from this false view. You must know that the Buddha Dharma preaches as a matter of course that body and mind are one and the same, that the essence and the form are not two. This is understood both in India and in China, so there can be no doubt about it. Need I add that the Buddhist doctrine of immutability teaches that all things are immutable, without any differentiation between body and mind. The Buddhist teaching of mutability states that all things are mutable, without any differentiation between essence and form. In view of this, how can anyone state that the body perishes and the mind abides? It would be contrary to the true Dharma.

Beyond this, you must also come to fully realize that birth-and-death is in and of itself nirvana. Buddhism never speaks of nirvana apart from birth-and-death. Indeed, when someone thinks that the mind, apart from the body, is immutable, not only does he mistake it for Buddha-wisdom, which is free from birth-and-death, but the very mind that makes such a discrimination is not immutable, is in fact even then turning in birth-and-death. A hopeless situation, is it not?

You should ponder this deeply: since the Buddha Dharma has always maintained the oneness of body and mind, why, if the body is born and perishes, would the mind alone, separated from the body, not be born and die as well? If at one time body and mind were one, and at another time not one, the preaching of the Buddha would be empty and untrue. Moreover, in thinking that birth-and-death is something we should turn from, you make the mistake of rejecting the Buddha Dharma itself. You must guard against such thinking.

Understand that what Buddhists call the Buddhist doctrine of the mind-nature, the great and universal aspect encompassing all phenomena, embraces the entire universe, without differentiating between essence and form, or concerning itself with birth or death. There is nothing - enlightenment and nirvana included - that is not the mind-nature. All dharmas, the "myriad forms dense and close" of the universe - are alike in being this one Mind. All are included without exception. All those dharmas, which serves as "gates" or entrances to the Way, are the same as one Mind. For a Buddhist to preach that there is no disparity between these dharma-gates indicates that he understands the mind-nature.

In this one Dharma [one Mind], how could there be any differentiate between body and mind, any separation of birth-and-death and nirvana? We are all originally children of the Buddha, we should not listen to madmen who spout non-Buddhist views.

Labels: Anatta, Zen |

Also, Phillip Kapleau Roshi mentioned in his book "Straight to the Heart of Zen: Eleven Classic Koans & Their Inner Meanings", the two distinct phases of realization in Zen practice that corresponds to what I personally term "I AM realization" and "anatta~total exertion": "...A shallow kensho is not fully satisfying. One has seen into constant change, it is true, and into the formless Self as well - that which makes change possible. One has caught a glimpse of both change and changelessness. But it's only a glimpse, and it is not enough, because in reality, the two worlds of change and changelessness are not really two at all. After a time this initial seeing makes us want to go further, deeper. Instinctively we know that it's only well-chewed food that nourishes and satisfies. This we might take as meaning long training through which we more fully integrate our understanding into our daily lives. Our enlightenment is fully digested. Now change is Changelessness. This is what keeps away hunger and uncertainty, anxiety, fear, and above all unsatisfactoriness, the constant feeling of being on edge, alienated, separated - 'a stranger and afraid', as the poet A. E. Housman wrote, 'in a world I never made.' At last we know real peace. The verse says: 'This one instant, as it is, is an infinite number of kalpas.' What is a kalpa? The sutras describe a kalpa as the length of time it would take a heavenly being, adeva, sweeping its gossamer wings across the top of the mile-high mountain once each year to wear that mountain down to the ground. This one instant is a kalpa. All time is in this instant, and an infinite number of kalpas are, at the time, this one instant. All time means past, present, and future.... ...if our mind is entirely free from both time and timelessness, it we are living fully and wholly every moment, every moment is everything; all of time is in each full, vitally alive moment. If one has truly seen into time and timelessness - if one has really become time itself - then there is no notion of time or timelessness to hinder or bind..."”

The anatman realization was also described as the ninth oxherding picture in https://terebess.hu/english/oxherding.html

Excerpt: 

Ten Ox-herding Pictures

Stage 9

RETURNING

TO THE SOURCE

Introduction

It is originally pure and clean without a speck of dust clinging.

He observes the flourishing and dying of form while remaining in the silence of no-action.

This is not the same as illusion; what need is there for striving or planning?

The water is blue and the mountains green; he sits and watches phenomena take form and decay.

Verse

Having come back to the origin and returned to the source, you see that you have expended efforts in vain.

What could be superior to becoming blind and deaf in this very moment?

Inside the hermitage, you do not see what is in front of the hermitage.

The water flows of itself and the flowers are naturally red.

How much time and pain it took to come to the eighth stage of "Person and Ox Both Forgotten"! Now you have reached at last the stage where you realize the fact of "Person is empty, so is the dharma," that is, the subject (person) and the object (dharma) are both totally empty. Since this is the fruit of extremely long and hard labor, you tend to stick to this stage and to cherish it endlessly - the last residue of enlightenment. If you succeed in washing it away by constant and persistent sitting, you come to a state of realization that the fact of "Person is empty, so is the dharma" is the essential state of human beings, signifying nothing special at all. Through this realization you return to your original starting point. This is the stage of "Returning to the source," where not a trace of such things as "Buddhism" or "Tathagata" is found anywhere. It is true that "the state after enlightenment is exactly the same as that of before enlightenment." It is the state of mind of "a leisurely person of the Way, who, having finished learning, has nothing more to do."

At this stage you can observe that all the highs and lows and vacillations of this world are, as they are, void of substance and are manifestations of the world of perfect stillness and non-being. Expressed in these terms it sounds as if there were two things - being and non-being. But in fact, being is non-being; the aspect of being is, as it is, non-being itself. There is no distinction between the two at all.

This proposition "Being is non-being" is a crude fact, not a temporary illusion or a dream. At this point you can realize and affirm that it has been entirely unnecessary to be consciously engaged in practicing the way or trying to attain enlightenment. This is a very important point: you start with the first stage of "Searching the Ox," and, spending many years in practice, you come at last to the ninth level of "Returning to the Source," and as a result of this entire process you can say that practice and enlightenment were unnecessary. It is totally wrong to maintain from the very beginning that practice and enlightenment are of no use. Such an attitude is called "inactive zen" [buji-zen] . Today, almost all Zen schools in Japan have degenerated to this "inactive zen." They maintain that just sitting is enough, not appreciating the experience of enlightenment or even ignoring it. On the other hand, you must bear in mind: No matter how strongly you argue that enlightenment is important, if it's nothing more than just propagating a conceptional zen or if you take pride in your experience (if it was an authentic experience), you are only mid-way. There is no other way than to sit and sit and sit, until you can very clearly say that practice and enlightenment were intrinsically unnecessary.

Let's now appreciate the verse by Master Kakuan:

Having come back to the origin and returned to the source,

you see that you have expended efforts in vain.

You are now back to your starting point. How much effort you needed for that! Occasionally you encouraged yourself washing your face with the ice-chilly basin water, or you sank into desperation listening to frogs croaking in the dusk outside, or you kept sitting in defiance of the pains in the legs or of unbearable fatigue. Many times you have felt, "Now, this time I've come to a true experience!" but soon that experience is covered with anxiety and discontent. How many times you have determined to stop doing zazen altogether!.

What could be superior to becoming blind and deaf

in this very moment?

Come to think of it now, why didn't I become like a blind and deaf person right away? "Blind and deaf" here means a state of mind where there is nothing to see and nothing to hear. When you see, there's only the seeing, and the subject that sees doesn't exist. When you hear, there's only the hearing, and the subject that hears doesn't exist. The objects which are seen or heard are, just as they are, without substance. But understanding the logic of this will not do. When this is realized as a fact, you become like a "blind and deaf" person.

Inside the hermitage,

you do not see what is in front of the hermitage.

The late YAMADA Kôun Roshi comments that this line comes from a dialogue between Unmon [864-949] and Master Kempô [dates unknown]: Unmon visited Master Kempô and asked, "Why doesn't a person inside the hermitage know anything outside the hermitage?" To this, Kempô burst out into laughter. The point is why the person inside the hermitage (subject) cannot see the things "in front of the hermitage" (object). That's because there isn't anything in front of the hermitage. You may say that there is only the subject, there being no object at all. Yet, in actual truth, that "subject" doesn't exist either.

The water flows of itself and the flowers are naturally red.

The water runs smoothly, the flowers are colored scarlet. This line seems to imply that there are only the objects and there's no subject at all. However, as a matter of fact, those objects do not exist at all. It's simply that the water is running smoothly, and flowers are scarlet. Everything is just as it is [tada korekore], and everything is void as it is now [arugamama no aritsubure]. The fact that there is no distinction between self and others simply continues without end - "The water flows of itself and the flowers are naturally red.".

Also, this might interest you too, 

Zen teacher Alex Weith, who went through Atman-Brahman realization before realizing anatman, said well in his well written writings that I compiled here https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2011/10/a-zen-exploration-of-bahiya-sutta.html

"What I realized also is that authoritative self-realized students of direct students of both Ramana Maharishi and Nisargadatta Maharaj called me a 'Jnani', inviting me to give satsangs and write books, while I had not yet understood the simplest core principles of Buddhism. I realized also that the vast majority of Buddhist teachers, East and West, never went beyond the same initial insights (that Adhyashanti calls "an abiding awakening"), confusing the Atma with the ego, assuming that transcending the ego or self-center (ahamkara in Sanskrit) was identical to what the Buddha had called Anatta (Non-Atma).

It would seem therefore that the Buddha had realized the Self at a certain stage of his acetic years (it is not that difficult after all) and was not yet satisfied. As paradoxical as it may seem, his "divide and conquer strategy" aimed at a systematic deconstruction of the Self (Atma, Atta), reduced to -and divided into- what he then called the five aggregates of clinging and the six sense-spheres, does lead to further and deeper insights into the nature of reality. As far as I can tell, this makes me a Buddhist, not because I find Buddhism cool and trendy, but because I am unable to find other teachings and traditions that provide a complete set of tools and strategies aimed at unlocking these ultimate mysteries, even if mystics from various traditions did stumble on the same stages and insights often unknowingly. 

….

This also means that  the first step is to disembed from impermanent 

phenomena until the only  thing that feels real is this all pervading 

uncreated all pervading  awareness that feels like the source and 

substance of phenomena. Holding  on to it after this realization can 

hower become a subtle form of  grasping diguised as letting go.

The second step is therefore to  realize that this brightness, awakeness or

 luminosity is there very  nature of phenomena and then only does the 

duality between the True Self  and the appearences arising and passing 

within the Self dissolve,  revealing the suchness of what is.

The next step that I found  very practical is to push the process of 

deconstruction a step further,  realizing that all that is experienced 

is one of the six consciousness.  In other words, there is neither a 

super Awareness beyond phenomena, not  solid material objects, but only 

six streams of sensory experiences.  The seen, the heard, the sensed, 

the tasted, the smelled and the  cognized (including thoughts, emotions,

 and subtle thougths like  absorbtion states, jhanas).

At this point it is not difficult to see how relevent the Bahiya Sutta can become.

...

Just for the sake of clarification, I would like to make it clear that I never said that "these luminous self-perceiving phenomena which are craving-free and nondual are the Ultimate", if there could still be any ambiguity about that.

On the contrary, I said that what I used to take for an eternal, empty, uncreated, nondual, primordial awareness, source and substance of all things, turned out to be nothing more than the luminous nature of phenomena, themselves empty and ungraspable, somehow crystallized in a very subtle witnessing position. The whole topic of this thread is the deconstruction of this Primordial Awareness, One Mind, Cognizing Emptiness, Self, Atman, Luminous Mind, Tathagatgabha, or whatever we may call it,

As shocking as it may seem, the Buddha was very clear to say that this pure impersonal objectless nondual awareness (that Vedantists called Atma in Sanskrit, Atta in Pali) is still the aggregate of consciousness and that consciousness, as pure and luminous as it can be, does not stand beyond the aggregates.

"Any kind of consciousness whatever, whether past, future or presently arisen, whether gross or subtle, whether in oneself or external, whether inferior or superior, whether far or near must, with right understanding how it is, be regarded thus: 'This is not mine, this is not I, this is not my self.'" (Anatta-lakkhana Sutta)."

…

So what is this pure, unborn, empty, timeless and nondual Awareness? As I see it now, it is just the non-arising, unsupported, empty and self-luminous nature of what is that the mind grasps and imagines to be an essential sustancial inherhent ultimate reality beyond phenomena. Seeing a white ox on a while empty field covered with snow (common Zen simile for the experience of the One Mind), the mind assumes that there is a pure "Whiteness" beyond all white objects.

Why? Because when the mind is not yet freed from ignorance, it needs to hold on to some kind of stable reference point, reifying its unconditioned and nonabiding nature realized in a moment of total surrender into seeing the eternal Source and substance of all things.

As I am starting to see it now, there is no clean mirror behind the images reflected in the mirror.The mirror cannot be separated from its reflected images. The reflected images are the mirror. Reality is like a lucid dream, but there is no dreamer, nor dreamed reality beyond the dream. There is just an timeless flow of dream images dreaming themselves within the dream. In dreaming, only the dream / in seeing, only the seen / in hearing, only the heard.

…

Another dharma teacher who underwent similar journey from Vedanta realization (confirmed to be deep and profound by his Vedanta teachers and asked to teach) before going into Buddhist realization is Archaya Mahayogi Shridhar Rana Rinpoche, you can read about his bio and articles here: https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/search/label/Acharya%20Mahayogi%20Shridhar%20Rana%20Rinpoche