A note by Soh: "The problem is that most vipassana teachers are missing the anatta insight and the way they teach doesnt directly lead to insight.

Their anatta understanding is still inferential, even if they have peak experiences of some aspects of no-self. It is not the same as what we call the realisation of anatman.

http://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2018/12/vipassana-must-go-with-luminous.html

It will be good that when doing vipassana, at the same time you contemplate experientially the two stanzas of anatta or bahiya sutta, that will lead to the anatman breakthrough

https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2009/03/on-anatta-emptiness-and-spontaneous.html

https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2010/10/my-commentary-on-bahiya-sutta.html

https://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2008/01/ajahn-amaro-on-non-duality-and.html "


Comments: If are aiming for Self-Realization (i.e. Thusness Stage 1), start with self-inquiry as I discussed in my e-book. If you are aiming for nondual/anatta realization or already realized that, the Four Foundations of Mindfulness is more appropriate.

Also see: Practice Before AND After Anatta
Vipassana Must Go With Luminous Manifestation
Thusness's Vipassana
Vipassana

A:

Hey Soh I hope you are doing good
I just had a question, just trying to make sure according to you what is the difference between mindfulness and awareness?

Me:
1:55 AM
the way i use the terms
awareness is your luminous essence, ever present as the very manifest sound, sight, or thought or sense of existence before concepts
for example when hearing just sound. always already so. hearing is always only sound. that sound is clearly 'self-aware'
already the case
you didn't make the sound 'aware' it is 'aware by itself' by nature
mindfulness is a mental factor that denotes the opposite of forgetfulness
so it is both the opposite of absent mindedness or distraction, as well as the presence of remembrance of the truth
remembrance of the three dharma seals - impermanence, unsatisfactoriness, non-self
so you can lose mindfulness but you cannot lose awareness
many people use the term mindfulness to mean something like bare attention, but bare attention is only part of it
you can have bare attention yet get stuck in the sense of being a background Witness
this is not being mindful of the three dharma seals
im doing good thanks.. hope you're doing good too

A:
Im good

I see this where contemplation of the things like Bahiya sutta become important with remembrance of them
So non distraction is no awareness
Awareness-manifestartion is spontaneous and unfolds without a controller

Me:

awareness is 'essence', mindfulness is the practice, until it becomes effortless and spontaneous due to realisation and stabilisation of insight
even after arahantship, the arahants still dedicate quality time to meditate and practice mindfulness of breathing or the four foundations of mindfulness. this is so even though they done what is to be done and eliminated all I/me/mine-making, still practicing mindfulness in sitting meditation leads to a pleasant abiding. according to the buddha and his arahants
also 'awareness' or 'luminous essence' is usually over-stressed, what's even more important is the 'empty nature' of luminous clarity, this is what liberates
otherwise it becomes like Self of vedanta, etc
non-distraction and being mindful of the empty and luminous nature of presence in whatever arises is the practice, i mean. even though luminosity (awareness) and emptiness is never lost. it is not lost even in the most deluded unenlightened person in the world, just that they aren't mindful of their nature and thus suffer
at first mindfulness seems to be very efforting but after anatta realisation it becomes effortless. but it does not mean one should stop practicing, one should still practice diligently

A:

This is clarifying so many things
How would you definite luminosity?
Define*


Me:

there are different definitions so you should be careful of the context being spoken. usually people use it to denote the aspect of 'luminous clarity' or clarity or presence-awareness, but according to Lopon Malcolm in his tradition the term 'luminosity' already implies the inseparability of emptiness and clarity. in my terminology, i usually use 'luminosity' to refer to the aspect of presence-awareness, so one can 'realise luminosity' but at the same time fail to realise its emptiness. both essence (presence-awareness) and nature (empty nature) or its inseparable union must be realised for liberation, that's the only way to liberate.
i wrote something on luminosity a few months back -

http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2018/07/luminosity-vs-clarity.html

"Someone asked me about luminosity. I said it is not simply a state of heightened clarity or mindfulness, but like touching the very heart of your being, your reality, your very essence without a shadow of doubt. It is a radiant, shining core of Presence-Awareness, or Existence itself. It is the More Real than Real. It can be from a question of "Who am I?" followed by a sudden realization. And then with further insights you touch the very life, the very heart, of everything. Everything comes alive. First as the innermost 'You', then later when the centerpoint is dropped (seen through -- there is no 'The Center') every 'point' is equally so, every point is A 'center', in every encounter, form, sound and activity."
http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2018/07/the-key-towards-pure-knowingness.html

The Key Towards Pure Knowingness

"The key towards pure knowingness is to bring the taste of presence into the 6 entries and exits. So that what is seen, heard, touched, tasted are pervaded by a deep sense of crystal, radiance and transparency. This requires seeing through the center." - Thusness
http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2018/09/what-is-luminosity.html

What is Luminosity?
https://www.dharmaoverground.org/discussion/-/message_boards/message/9383580

DhO questioner: What is Luminosity?

Daniel M. Ingram:

Luminosity is both a useful and possibly very misleading term.

Here's what it is doesn't mean: that a person will suddenly see things more brightly, that there will be more light in things than the standard amount, or anything like that.

Here's what it points to, said a number of equivalent ways:

“1) In the seeing, just the seen. In the hearing, just the heard. In cognition, just the cognized. In feeling, just the felt... This standard line from the Bahiya of the Bark Cloth Sutta in the Udana is one of the most profound there is in the whole of the Pali Canon. It means that sensations are just sensations, simply that, with no knower, doer, be-er (not beer, as that is a beverage), or self in them to be found at all.
2) Point one, taken in its logical inverse, means that the "light" of awareness is in things where they are, including all of the space between/around/through them equally.
3) Said another way, things just are aware/manifest/occurring where they are just as they are, extremely straightforwardly.

Helpful?

Daniel”
when all thoughts drop... what remains is purely a sense of PRESENCE. there is no subject-object in it. You do not observe it. You touch the heart of your Being, not by 'knowing' but Being the Being. It is You. and when hearing... how do you touch the 'heart' of the vivid luminosity of Sound? there's no how, you just realise that in hearing there's only sound, hearing IS the sound... the vivid PRESENCE/SOUND... there's only that. there is no one there to even 'recognise the sound'. that's not what mindfulness mean. mindfulness of sound is just SOUND, enter into it, the heart of it. and then the same goes for colors, sensations, taste, touch, smell, thought
that's luminosity and not just a state of heightened clarity
when you realise anatta you will realise the purpose of buddha teaching the four foundations of mindfulness, why the buddha taught that it is the direct path to liberation, why he is so confident in that practice that he assures everyone will attain full liberation through that practice in as little as 7 days and no more than 7 years
“What are the Four Establishments? 1. “Bhikkhus, a practitioner remains established in the observation of the body in the body, diligent, with clear understanding, mindful, having abandoned every craving and every distaste for this life. 2. “He remains established in the observation of the feelings in the feelings, diligent, with clear understanding, mindful, having abandoned every craving and every distaste for this life. 3. “He remains established in the observation of the mind in the mind, diligent, with clear understanding, mindful, having abandoned every craving and every distaste for this life. 4. “He remains established in the observation of the objects of mind in the objects of mind, diligent, with clear understanding, mindful, having abandoned every craving and every distaste for this life.”
as thich nhat hanh said, "While we are fully aware of and observing deeply and object the boundary between the subject who observes and the object being observed gradually dissolves, and the subject and object become one. This is the essence of meditation. Only when we penetrate the object and become one with it can we understand it. That is why the sutra reminds us to be aware of the body in the body, the feelings in the feelings, the mind in the mind, and the objects of mind in the objects of mind."

but what i'm saying is not even 'gradually' but a sudden realisation.. then the path becomes known and direct

A:

Its so funny to see the myriad of interpretation people have. This was the interpretation I had of those statements of the Buddha the first time I practiced vipassana

Me:
👍1
this is similar to https://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/search/label/John%20Welwood



We can only perceive the suchness of things through an awareness that opens to them nonconceptually and unconditionally, allowing them to reveal themselves in their as-it-is-ness. As the poet Basho suggests:

From the pine tree

Learn of the pine tree

And from the bamboo

of the bamboo.

Commenting on these lines, the Japanese philosopher Nishitani (1982) explains that Basho does not mean

That we should ‘observe the pine tree carefully.’ Still less does he mean for us to ‘study the pine tree scientifically.’ He means for us to enter the mode of being where the pine tree is the pine tree itself, and the bamboo is the bamboo itself, and from there to look at the pine tree and the bamboo. He calls on us to betake ourselves to the dimension where things become manifest in their suchness. (p. 128)

In the same vein, Zen Master Dogen advises: “You should not restrict yourselves to learning to see water from the viewpoints of human beings alone. Know that you must see water in the way water sees water” (Izutsu, 1972, p. 140). “Seeing water in the way water sees water” means recognizing water in its suchness, free of all concepts that spring from an observing mind standing back from experience.

A:

Thanks again Soh I will devour the ressources you sent to bring clarity to my practice
One thing I wanted to mention
Last weekend I was contemplating and I suddenly had on of those "Aha" or "Eureka" moment about the I thought or the sense of existance. I saw like sights, sounds and other manifestation, it appears and disappears, it is not personal it is just an arising. Since then I felt like an empty shell of just dancing senses. As you told me before sensations cannot see, even if the tactile center is here, there is no substrate to cognizes, there is no awareness that links
Things feel so ordinary
I am nothing


Me:
that's good.. only arising and disappearing. but at the same time total presence is experienced and realised as that very arising

A:
Yeah it seems I need to investigate more, I was locked in a sort of nothingness a few days ago but movement in multiplicity is coming back
I havent realized anatta but I cant find awareness, at least the one that was there before. The one existence, self-evidence that knows. Seeing, hearing and so on are self evident
It becomes even clearer in the moments when I spontenously get out of distraction

Me:

means you are having experience and glimpses of no-mind... but the realization is still lacking. so continue contemplation on bahiya sutta and anatta view, like this one - https://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2018/08/the-wind-is-blowing.html , and the realization will come and no-mind will become your natural state

A:
I got you man
👍1
Thanks for sharing the dharma



👊🏿


--------------

I also wrote in 2011:

Good insight. Stability of experience has a predictable relationship with
the unfolding and deepening of insights. For example how seamless and
effortless can non-dual experience be, if in the back of one's mind, subtle
views of duality and inherency and tendencies continue to surface and affect
our moment to moment experience - for example conjuring an unchanging source
or mind that results in a perpetual tendency to sink back and referencing
experience back to a source.

For example even after it is seen that everything is a manifestation of
awareness or mind, there might still be subtle tendencies to reference back
to a source, awareness or mind and therefore the transience is not
appreciated in full. Nondual is experienced but one sinks back into
substantial nonduality - there is always a referencing back to a base, an
"awareness" that is nevertheless inseperable from all phenomena.

If one arises the insight that our ideas of an unchanging source, awareness
or mind is just another thought - that there is simply thought after
thought, sight after sight, sound after sound, and there isn't an inherent
or unchanging "awareness", "mind", "source". Non-dual becomes implicit and
effortless when there is the realisation that what awareness, seeing,
hearing really is, is just the seen... The heard... The transience... The
transience itself rolls and knows, no knower or other "awareness" can be
found. Like there is no river apart from flowing, no wind apart from
blowing, each noun implies its verb... Similarly awareness is simply the
process of knowing not separated from the known. Scenery sees, music hears.
Because there is nothing unchanging, independent, ultimate apart from the
transience, there is no more sinking back to a source and instead there is
full comfort resting as the transience itself.

Lastly do continue practicing the intensity of luminosity... When looking at
tennis ball just sense the tennis ball fully.... Without thinking of a
source, background, observer, self. Just the tennis ball as a luminous
light. When breathing... Just the breathe... When seeing scenery, just
sights, shapes and colours - intensely luminous and vivid without an agent
or observer. When hearing music... Sound of bird chirping, the crickets...
Just that - chirp chirp. A zen master noted upon his awakening... When I am
hearing the bell ringing, there is no I and no bell... Just the ringing. The
direct experiencing of no-mind and intensity of luminosity.. This is the
purpose of the practice of the four foundations of mindfulness that is
taught by the Buddha.

This is the second discourse of Buddha, that led to all of his first five disciples to attain Arahantship, liberation.

The Five (Brethren)
Pañca Sutta  (SN 22:59)

This discourse is also known as the Anatta-lakkhaṇa Sutta, the Discourse on the Not-self Characteristic. According to Mv I, this was the first of the Buddha’s discourses during which his listeners became arahants.
* * *
I have heard that on one occasion the Blessed One was staying near Vārāṇasī in the Deer Park at Isipatana. There he addressed the group of five monks:
“Form, monks, is not self. If form were the self, this form would not lend itself to dis-ease. It would be possible (to say) with regard to form, ‘Let my form be thus. Let my form not be thus.’ But precisely because form is not self, this form lends itself to dis-ease. And it is not possible (to say) with regard to form, ‘Let my form be thus. Let my form not be thus.’
“Feeling is not self.…
“Perception is not self.…
“Fabrications are not self.…
“Consciousness is not self. If consciousness were the self, this consciousness would not lend itself to dis-ease. It would be possible (to say) with regard to consciousness, ‘Let my consciousness be thus. Let my consciousness not be thus.’ But precisely because consciousness is not self, consciousness lends itself to dis-ease. And it is not possible (to say) with regard to consciousness, ‘Let my consciousness be thus. Let my consciousness not be thus.’
“What do you think, monks? Is form constant or inconstant?”
“Inconstant, lord.”
“And is that which is inconstant easeful or stressful?”
“Stressful, lord.”
“And is it fitting to regard what is inconstant, stressful, subject to change as: ‘This is mine. This is my self. This is what I am’?”
“No, lord.”
“… Is feeling constant or inconstant?” — “Inconstant, lord.” …
“… Is perception constant or inconstant?” — “Inconstant, lord.” …
“… Are fabrications constant or inconstant?” — “Inconstant, lord.” …
“What do you think, monks? Is consciousness constant or inconstant?”
“Inconstant, lord.”
“And is that which is inconstant easeful or stressful?”
“Stressful, lord.”
“And is it fitting to regard what is inconstant, stressful, subject to change as: ‘This is mine. This is my self. This is what I am’?”
“No, lord.”
“Thus, monks, any form whatsoever that is past, future, or present; internal or external; blatant or subtle; common or sublime; far or near: Every1 form is to be seen with right discernment as it has come to be: ‘This is not mine. This is not my self. This is not what I am.’
“Any feeling whatsoever.…
“Any perception whatsoever.…
“Any fabrications whatsoever.…
“Any consciousness whatsoever that is past, future, or present; internal or external; blatant or subtle; common or sublime; far or near: Every1 consciousness is to be seen with right discernment as it has come to be: ‘This is not mine. This is not my self. This is not what I am.’
“Seeing thus, the instructed disciple of the noble ones grows disenchanted with form, disenchanted with feeling, disenchanted with perception, disenchanted with fabrications, disenchanted with consciousness. Disenchanted, he becomes dispassionate. Through dispassion, he is released. With release, there is the knowledge, ‘Released.’ He discerns that ‘Birth is ended, the holy life fulfilled, the task done. There is nothing further for this world.’”
That is what the Blessed One said. Gratified, the group of five monks delighted in the Blessed One’s words. And while this explanation was being given, the minds of the group of five monks, through lack of clinging/sustenance, were released from effluents.
Note
1. The word “every” here and in all parallel passages is sabba, which is the same as the word for “all.” On the range of meaning covered by the word “all,” see SN 35:23. DN 11, DN 15, MN 49, and AN 10:81 indicate that there is a type of consciousness that lies outside the range of “all,” and so would not fall under the aggregate of consciousness. This apparently corresponds to the dimension mentioned in SN 35:117 and Ud 8:1.

Dainen-ji, November 17, 2017

Each moment unfolds as a display of richness, of colours and forms and sounds, as a myriad of sensations. Sincere practice is allowing the whole bodymind to live as the brightness of seeing, the depth of sound, as ever-changing sensations, as the Luminosity of experiencing as a whole. And when we allow ourselves to do even a measure of this, there is a quality of questioning, of interest, of intimacy with everything that is being experienced. But to do this requires that we choose to stop following the congealing of attention into fabrications that lead to further contraction and inevitably, suffering.
Anzan Hoshin roshi says, in the series of classes on “The 8000 Line Prajnaparamita sutra”:
Fear is the underlying mechanism of self-image, the attempt to reify reality in the most basic kind of way by simply freezing it and contracting. And the conventions of consensual experience or the experience of those who are unlearned, those who have not studied their experience, those who have not heard the Dharma, who have not practiced it, those whose lives are based on the understanding of a culture which is itself founded on contraction, will allow themselves to fall into that fear and will allow themselves to be held back by that fear from their own freedom.
What this points to is that we must wordlessly examine absolutely everything, taking nothing for granted: not who we think we are, not our memories, not what we think the body is, not what we think the mind is, not what our tendencies and habits tell us to do, not what our anger or fear is telling us to do. Any state you experience, any stance, any structure of attention you experience is not necessary. They are all recoil. They are all self-inflicted damage.
As the Roshi explained in Class 4 of the series “The Development of Buddhist Psychology:
All conditioned existence gives rise to dukkha or unsatisfactoriness, suffering, contraction, confusion; that this suffering, this dukkha, is fueled by the mechanism of grasping, of trying to hold on to something when it cannot be held and by continually misunderstanding the nature of our experience.
“Dukkha” does not describe one particular kind of state and the "suffering" isn’t necessarily traumatic or dramatic. I mention this because sometimes students will describe a particular kind of state, such as boredom, as dukkha. For example, a student might describe a state of sinking mind, of disinterest, when what they really mean is boredom, and boredom is the result of stupidity klesa. In other words, boredom is a way of experiencing that is poisoned by a flattening of attention that you are fabricating, following, propagating. It is a kind of pouting that one is not being entertained. It is not as dramatic as the tantrums of anger or grasping. But it is still a childish tactic.
But dukkha refers to all  states which are the result of conditioned experience, and all states create suffering, unsatisfactoriness and bondage.
The roots of the Pali word "dukkha" are "jur" and "kha." "Bad" and "space". The root metaphor behind this is the hole in a wheel through which the axle passes being blocked. So the word means obstructed space.
We need to learn that the space of who we are, which is present as seeing and hearing and just the fact of experience is already open. When you are in a state, you think you have no choice about that, but the truth of the matter is that you are not choosing. You are following compulsion. Choose to actually practise and open attention and the axle will turn freely.
It’s easy to cultivate states when you are sitting - states of boredom, states of calm, states of quiet, states of euphoria, shiny, shiny states. But all of these are dead ends because whatever is experienced within the state can only be the product of the state. The context is narrowed to the kind of content that suits it. And this is why such states can seem so convincing, and so compelling. This is why you fixate on them. There is no one who is better at lying to you than you are, and the thing that’s convinced by the lie is the same thing that’s doing the lying. It’s not magic once you understand how the trick works. The states define who and what is imagined as a self but is really just a process of obstruction and fabrication.
In Zen practice, however, what we are doing is attending openly, rather than fixating. You can’t ‘fix’ a state from inside of a state. You have to open around it and release it first. Anything you experience when attention is arranged in a structure (a state) is going to be biased and therefore cannot be true. Seeing these structures and learning to attend to them more and more openly with the whole of your experience is part of the many truths that zazen reveals. In the Class Six Outline in the series, “The Development of Buddhist Psychology”, the Roshi said,The Buddha has clearly seen that the root of dukkha was clinging to what  could not be clung to. This clinging was the result of conceiving of the impermanent and dynamic exertion of experience to be a collection of real and permanent objects and entities, believing that this clinging will bring pleasure and satisfaction whereas it results only in suffering and confusion, and that what is selfless and beyond the personal is self and personal. The succession of these moments of grasping and confusion he called “samsara”, the “flow”. He called the cessation of this useless struggle and strategic approach to experience “nibbana”, the “blowing out”. In many places throughout the early texts, we find the Buddha again and again asking students to give up their spiritual and secular strategies and just understand something so obvious that it is often missed.
This is why we ask students to sit according to a schedule, why the Roshi has said so often that “the schedule IS Buddha”. The dreaded committed sittings and the schedule you have promised to follow is important because you have to make choices that go beyond compulsion in order to do it. It is something in your life that will insist that you go further than your habits and tendencies dictate and can invite you into the world of the Buddhas. The world of the Buddhas is unfabricated and unborn and you arrive there by releasing yourself into it.
We sit zazen and we do this practice because moment after moment, we do not understand. Any snippets of understanding that come and go are not enough. We cannot afford to entertain ourselves with our states, our thoughts, our interpretations, our fabrications. These are all part of how we misunderstand and will not help us to clarify our understanding. We cannot afford to be lazy. So this morning and throughout this Dharma Assembly, please make the effort to really practise the richness of colours and forms and sounds, the nuance of sensations. Allow the whole bodymind to live as the brightness of seeing, the depth of sound, as ever-changing sensations, and as the Luminosity of experiencing as a whole, by opening all around, all at once.