Soh
Months ago someone (let's call him Mr. X as he prefers anonymity) messaged me about a breakthrough. He described having no more sense of self, instead there is just a vast open expanse and stillness without inside and outside, that holds everything within it. It was a beautiful, all-encompassing radiance of clear light that has never not been here, is ever-present and from which all appearances appear within. His description was longer than this but I summarized.

He must have thought that this was the same as what I call the anatta realization, but I told him it was more of the I AM and one mind type of realization and understanding. He couldn't understand what was the difference between that and anatta. Today however he had another insight and became clearer.

He said, "Its about practice and perspective and view etc. When we spoke last there you mentioned it wasnt quite anatta and i couldnt work out why it wasnt...but then today all experience dropped out, totally, there wasnt nothing, and there wasnt something. cant explain it.

upon coming back from that its abundantly obvious that everything that ever was has been could be is here, and not here. theres no viewer, no view, no seen, heard, everything that arises knows itself totally, comes, and goes, changing changing changing. like a kaleidoscope. Its not as if theres anyone thats aware, its all just aware of itself without effort.
Perhaps an analogy would be a spinning top or a diver diving off a high board, over and over itself, in and out, no time, space, or location
vibrant, shining, is-ness
no questions remain and no point of even being an I. just this
i wonder if you had any reflections on that?
Gasshou"

Soh: "What is experience like now? It can be a glimpse of no mind but glimpses fade. Realization is doubtless quantum shift in perception and leap in view
Are you doubtless about anatta as always already so? Not a stage"

Mr. X: "never wasnt like this bro
i just didnt realise
its always been this way
but theres quite literally no 'I'. just the feeling of the keyboard, the sound of the keys, the bird song outside
the aliveness of the body.
the feet on the floor.
all just happening in and of itself
very very alive though. vibratory. sounds are felt like a subtle subtle vibration
What is experience like now? It can be a glimpse of no mind but glimpses fade. Realization is doubtless quantum shift in perception and leap in view
the view would be like 'being' a totally bottomless endless space of potentiality
but its not really something that words can really describe
interested in your reflections as its some time before i can see my teacher"
 
 
[1:15 am, 14/10/2021] John Tan: Wow...viewing his [Mr X]'s age and with his teacher guidance, he will go far.  20?👍
[1:16 am, 14/10/2021] John Tan: Or 24?
Soh: XX years old haha
 

Anyway I went online to check out his Zen teacher a little.

John Tan and I like this description by his Zen teacher:

Jeff Shores:

"Let the senses come fully to rest in sustained zazen. “The senses”
includes mind and all its activities as well. That is, the activation of
the mind that generates self-other, light-dark, illusion-enlightenment,
and so on. When the church bell rings, what’s there? Do you
reverberate – or do you sit there in your little world listening to the bell
outside? In the beginning it may seem like awareness itself is
resounding, but that is still the inside of self-experience, isn’t it?
Something remains within, listening.
When we really sit through, it becomes clear: it ’s not a state of
mind, it’s not a matter of awareness. Light is often used as a
metaphor for awareness. But only when our light is extinguished –
blown out, as it was with Tokusan – do things illumine themselves.
Here the exquisite beauty and inviolable dignity of “the other” is
illumined – precisely because the separation that we impose on it is
gone. Then we really see what’s in front of our little noses!
In terms of the metaphor of the ocean and the waves, first we
settle into the calm, boundless depths where all wavering and turmoil
are gone. Then, out of that, sense experience is suddenly
21
reawakened by a wave of sight or sound – w e come back to our
senses. To put it zenistically, no-self comes back to its senses :
laughing with pleasure , crying in pain . With this, each and every
wave is realized as what it is: the boundless source now flowing back
through all of our senses.
Every other also shares that boundless depth. And this is directly
realized, not just understood, felt, or intuited. Every other also shares
that boundless depth, not by becoming likenesses or pale reflections
of yourself, but by truly being what they are. Sitting through to the
very depths, you don’t get stuck even there. Wisdom naturally wells
up as compassion.
Please feel free to stand up and stretch. [Short break]
For the last several days you have gotten a sense of continuous
practice. Eventually, it’s something we are so imbued with that it’s
spontaneously forgotten – without a trace. Thus it seamlessly works
in the world. Wisdom realizes that there never was, is not now, and
never will be, a self that suffers. And that wisdom, if it’s truly wise and
alive, can’t help but overflow as loving compassion. Realizing that all
is, at bottom, empty of self, we never deny the actual conditions of
felt pain and dis-ease. Consider this well as you return to home and
to work.
“Never blind another’s eye.” This has been a guiding principle
throughout. We don’t open the eye of the other. We don’t need to.
We can help and guide them in various ways, as they can do so for
us. But we should never get in the way of others realizing it for
themselves.
22
Please do take care returning home today; you may be more tired
than you realize. Just as you threw yourself into the practice here,
when you get home throw yourself into what needs to be done
there. Return grateful to those who sacrificed so that you could be
here sitting on your butt. Recognize that some people may think
that’s all you were doing here. Hard to deny! You don’t have to
explain how painful that butt was at times. [Laughter] Remember that
they were home covering your butt: doing the laundry, watching the
kids, and so on. Thus we bow deeply.
Each and every dharma,
Consisting of causes & conditions – empty, without self.
Putting mind to rest, penetrating the original source –
Thus one is a sramana.
[一切諸法中 因縁空無主 息心達本源 故號為沙門]
From The Middle Length Sutra on Origination. The term “dharma”
refers both to any particular thing and to the living truth. What’s the
difference? “Sramana” referred to someone wandering in search of
truth, and eventually became a term for a Buddhist monk. Here and
now it simply refers to all of us. Consider it well.
To sum it up in my own clumsy way:
Sun always shining bright
Moon ever full and round
Each dark night
every tossing turning wave
unbound.
Sometimes it’s cloudy , or the sun has yet to rise; but t he sun is
always shining bright, isn’t it? Half moon, quarter moon, new moon;
23
yet it’s ever full and round , isn’t it? Each dark night, just as it is, is
unbound, released. I mention it merely for you to go beyond. Thank
you all for your questions and comments, and for your support. This
is the way we work it out together. "
Soh

 


Soh

 

    Eckhart Tolle on manifestation:

    1 Comment


    Soh Wei Yu
    Admin
    This is something a little off topic and unrelated to manifestation:

    The peak of the 'completeness of the present moment' and absence of 'feeling of lack' which Eckhart Tolle eludes to, is 'in the seen just the seen', 'in the heard just the heard'.
    If the heat is just heat, the heat kills you and the whole universe is the heat. If cold is just cold, the cold kills you, and the whole universe is cold. (See: Where There Is No Cold or Heat) In such a state, you are completely 'killed'. It is as if, and in fact in an experiential sense it is absolutely true, 'you' no longer exist at all. There is no trace of 'you' left anywhere in the universe. It is such a state of equipoise accompanied with prajna wisdom that liberates. And how can there be incompleteness, imperfection, or feeling of lack in such a state? How can there be mental unease, resistance, or craving in such a state, whether you are sitting on a porch in front of a beach, a mountain, or a slum?

    Bitten by mosquitoes is just another sensation - in sensing only sensation, no sensor. Sensations are just sensations, they kill 'you' (and in fact after anatta is realised as always already so and becomes stable natural state then there is no longer even a 'killing you' it's just naturally so as an actualized state). The sensations don't bother you at all, it is more like you bother the sensation, or rather the sense of 'self' is in fact the karmic activity of resisting that sensation. It's like someone can be very annoyed at some sounds, and another person just sits there in a state of zen and equanimity, why? The sounds in and of itself doesn't bother the person, it's the person 'bothering the sound'. The Buddha said, the eyes and forms, body and sensations, and so on, doesn't fetter you, it is the desire [or resistance/aversion/delusion] towards them that constitutes the fetter. Fetter or afflictions is simply 'self-created' chains and bondage, the aggregates are in and of themselves free when seen as they are.
     

    (Update: and when I said self-created I don't mean arising from a truly existing agent as there isn't any, but rather arising due to the nexus of ignorance-driven dependent origination)

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  • Bodhidharma says, "The usual person, through basic ignorance, fixates on one thing and then another.

     

    This basic ignorance is the root of self-image, avidya, basic ignorance, ignoring the fact that one is already fundamentally free and pretending to be bound. In the midst of space, trying to carve out some territory, as if one could build walls out of the sheer air, as if one could tie knots in the air, nail clouds in place.

     

    This tying of knots, this erecting of walls, this nailing things down, is this fixating on one thing and then another, grasping at thought, grasping at sounds and feelings, grasping at forms, and names. This is called craving.

     

    And so the craving that we need to address in our practice is not just a matter of giving up our attachment to fashion or a beautiful house, a beautiful wife, a beautiful husband, beautiful children, a beautiful life in which there are no problems. Dropping that does not liberate, because all craving, all greed, all lust, all anger, are rooted in this fundamental strategy of self-image to contract and localize, to create boundaries within emptiness, to grasp at emptiness. And so we must understand this process of fixation as it arises, and it arises not in a beautiful house. It arises in this moment of seeing and hearing. It arises as mind moments display themselves, and as this display is interpreted to be self and other, time and space, body and mind. This is the craving that we must understand and release.

     

    - Anzan Hoshin Roshi

     

    SN 35.28 

    PTS: S iv 19 

    CDB ii 1143

    Adittapariyaya Sutta: The Fire Sermon

    translated from the Pali by 

    Thanissaro Bhikkhu

    © 1993

    Alternate translation: Ñanamoli

    Alternate format: [SuttaReadings.net icon]

    X

    The updated version is freely available at

    This version of the text might be out of date. Please click here for more information

    I have heard that on one occasion the Blessed One was staying in Gaya, at Gaya Head, with 1,000 monks. There he addressed the monks:

    "Monks, the All is aflame. What All is aflame? The eye is aflame. Forms are aflame. Consciousness at the eye is aflame. Contact at the eye is aflame. And whatever there is that arises in dependence on contact at the eye — experienced as pleasure, pain or neither-pleasure-nor-pain — that too is aflame. Aflame with what? Aflame with the fire of passion, the fire of aversion, the fire of delusion. Aflame, I tell you, with birth, aging & death, with sorrows, lamentations, pains, distresses, & despairs.

    "The ear is aflame. Sounds are aflame...

    "The nose is aflame. Aromas are aflame...

    "The tongue is aflame. Flavors are aflame...

    "The body is aflame. Tactile sensations are aflame...

    "The intellect is aflame. Ideas are aflame. Consciousness at the intellect is aflame. Contact at the intellect is aflame. And whatever there is that arises in dependence on contact at the intellect — experienced as pleasure, pain or neither-pleasure-nor-pain — that too is aflame. Aflame with what? Aflame with the fire of passion, the fire of aversion, the fire of delusion. Aflame, I say, with birth, aging & death, with sorrows, lamentations, pains, distresses, & despairs.

    "Seeing thus, the well-instructed disciple of the noble ones grows disenchanted with the eye, disenchanted with forms, disenchanted with consciousness at the eye, disenchanted with contact at the eye. And whatever there is that arises in dependence on contact at the eye, experienced as pleasure, pain or neither-pleasure-nor-pain: With that, too, he grows disenchanted.

    "He grows disenchanted with the ear...

    "He grows disenchanted with the nose...

    "He grows disenchanted with the tongue...

    "He grows disenchanted with the body...

    "He grows disenchanted with the intellect, disenchanted with ideas, disenchanted with consciousness at the intellect, disenchanted with contact at the intellect. And whatever there is that arises in dependence on contact at the intellect, experienced as pleasure, pain or neither-pleasure-nor-pain: He grows disenchanted with that too. Disenchanted, he becomes dispassionate. Through dispassion, he is fully released. With full release, there is the knowledge, 'Fully released.' He discerns that 'Birth is ended, the holy life fulfilled, the task done. There is nothing further for this world.'"

    That is what the Blessed One said. Gratified, the monks delighted at his words. And while this explanation was being given, the hearts of the 1,000 monks, through no clinging (not being sustained), were fully released from fermentation/effluents.

      



    More comments by Soh:


    🙂 it doesnt mean there really is a person bothering the sound, the “person” is the activity of “bothering the sound” but it is in a sense a distinct stream of phenomena arising in dependence on ignorance and sound Once anatta insight is clear the way of practice is also clear It is like bahiya sutta and Māluṅkyaputta Sutta
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Soh


[8/10/21, 8:56:46 PM] John Tan: Read the foundation of dzogchen philosophy
[8/10/21, 9:13:05 PM] John Tan: It is in the book
[8/10/21, 9:13:59 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Ok
[8/10/21, 9:25:44 PM] John Tan: The book "foundation" goes in extensively to define what is zhi and kun zhi, their histories and development...etc...both r termed as "ground" which I do not think it as appropriate for a praxis that rest entirely on abolishing "ground" even when talking abt "zhi".  Malcolm is more cautious on this aspect.
[8/10/21, 11:17:28 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Oic..
[8/10/21, 11:17:58 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Malcolm translate it as basis
[8/10/21, 11:18:06 PM] Soh Wei Yu: malcolm:

And this so-called "god" aka basis [gzhi] is just a nonexistent mere appearance, that is, our primordial potentiality also has no real existence, which is stated over and over again in countless Dzogchen tantras.

For those whom emptiness is possible, everything is possible.
For those whom emptiness is not possible, nothing is possible.

-- Nāgārjuna.
[8/10/21, 11:21:37 PM] Soh Wei Yu: master shen kai teacher chen lzls etc uses the term 宇宙本体
[8/10/21, 11:26:48 PM] John Tan: Although David Higgins used the word "ground", he qualifies it as "insubstantial and unestablished in any sense".
[8/10/21, 11:27:07 PM] Soh Wei Yu: oic..
[9/10/21, 2:16:55 AM] Soh Wei Yu: Tommy McNally
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Tommy McNally
Hiya! Thanks for adding me to the group, it's really good to see you and John's opinions on the subtleties of Dzogchen as they seem to align with my own. I've been writing another blog for the last year that's mainly dharma-based, but I've tried to keep it simple and practical while combining it with motivation/mindset training. There's a few posts on there that I'd love to hear your opinion on, especially in the context of John's 7 stage model.

https://madladmindfulness.wordpress.com/
[9/10/21, 7:57:37 AM] John Tan: What r the posts?
[9/10/21, 4:35:37 PM] John Tan: I wonder y there is a need for Dzogchen to emphasize so much on gzhi and kun gzhi.  I do not see any real help in actual practice.  In fact seeing through self-nature is sufficient.  Direct and simple and straight forward🤣.  Although there r some important points in the praxis of dzogchen.
[9/10/21, 4:39:30 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Oic..
[9/10/21, 4:48:35 PM] John Tan: Also in early texts of Dzogchen and Nyingma scholars actually do not differentiate between gzhi and kun gzhi.
[9/10/21, 5:13:47 PM] John Tan: Btw how is ur uncle?
[9/10/21, 5:20:17 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Dont know.. never heard since
[9/10/21, 5:20:19 PM] Soh Wei Yu: I see
[9/10/21, 7:23:42 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Mahamudra also talk about “ground” but dunno what term they use


http://www.awakeningtoreality.com/search/label/Karmapa%20Rangjung%20Dorje?m=1

The ground of purification is the mind itself,
indivisible cognitive clarity and emptiness.
That which purifies is the great vajra yoga of mahamudra.
What is to be purified are the adventitious,
temporary contaminations of confusion,
May the fruit of purification, the stainless dharmakaya, be manifest.
Resolving doubts about the ground brings conviction in the view.
Then keeping one's awareness unwavering in accordance with the view,
is the subtle pith of meditation.
Putting all aspects of meditation into practice is the supreme action.
The view, the meditation, the action--may there be confidence in these.
All phenomena are illusory displays of mind.
Mind is no mind--the mind's nature is empty of any entity that is mind
Being empty, it is unceasing and unimpeded,
manifesting as everything whatsoever.
Examining well, may all doubts about the ground be discerned and cut.
[9/10/21, 7:23:53 PM] Soh Wei Yu: I suppose dzogchen and mahamudra should be the same view
[9/10/21, 7:57:53 PM] John Tan: Dzogchen is the path that starts from taking the view that anatta is a seal, always and already so.
[9/10/21, 7:59:37 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Oic.. mahamudra is the same?
[9/10/21, 8:09:09 PM] John Tan: I guessed so but I don't want to comment on this.
[9/10/21, 8:22:32 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Ic.. i guess zen should also be so
[9/10/21, 8:22:36 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Especially for dogen soto zen
[9/10/21, 8:22:42 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Even bodhidharma
[9/10/21, 8:34:03 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Even for sixth patriarch hui neng although initially talk about Self, in his teachings he said impermanence is buddha nature and refute non buddhist views
[9/10/21, 8:35:02 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Yet sadly few zen masters in china understand that. Maybe ven hui lu (See: True Mind and Unconditioned Dharma) and hong wen liang
[9/10/21, 8:40:21 PM] Soh Wei Yu: 僧志彻:弟子常览《涅槃经》,未晓常无常义。乞和尚慈悲,略为解说。   师曰:无常者,即佛性也;有常者,即一切善恶诸法分别心也。   曰:和尚所说,大违经文。   师曰:吾传佛心印,安敢违于佛经?   曰:经说佛性是常,和尚却言无常;善恶诸法,乃至菩提心,皆是无常,和尚却言是常。此即相违。令学人转加疑惑。   师曰:《涅槃经》,吾昔听尼无尽藏读诵一遍,便为讲说,无一宇一义不合经文。乃至为汝,终无二说。   曰:学人识量浅昧,愿和尚委曲开示。   师曰:汝知否?佛性若常,更说什么善恶诸法,乃至穷劫,无有一人发菩提心者。故吾说无常,正是佛说真常之道也。又一切诸法若无常者,即物物皆有自性,容受生死,而真常性有不遍之处。故吾说常者,正是佛说真无常义。佛比为凡夫外道执于邪常,诸二乘人于常计无常,共成八倒。故于涅槃了义教中,破彼偏见,而显说真常、真乐、真我、真净。汝今依言背义,以断灭无常,及确定死常,而错解佛之圆妙最后微言,纵览千遍,有何所益?   行昌忽然大悟,说偈云:   因守无常心,佛说有常性。   不知方便者,犹春池拾磔。   我今不施功,佛性而现前。   非师相授与,我亦无所得。   师曰:汝今彻也,宜名志彻。彻礼谢而退。
引自 佛性无常
[9/10/21, 9:07:56 PM] Soh Wei Yu: The monk Chih-ch’e was a native of Kiangsi. . . . After the Zen school split into southern and northern factions, though the leaders of the two groups made no such discriminations themselves, rivalry grew between their followers, which gave rise to intense feelings of partiality. Followers of the northern faction arbitrarily put forward their leader Shen-hsiu as the Sixth Patriarch and were thus envious when it became widely known that the patriarchal robe had been transmitted to Hui-neng, leader of the southern group. They enlisted the services of Hsing-ch’ang and told him to murder Hui-neng. Hui-neng, with his all-knowing mind, perceived what they were about. He placed ten taels of silver in his room. One dark night, Hsing-ch’ang entered the room and prepared to strike Hui-neng. Hui-neng stretched out his neck in readiness. Hsing-ch’ang struck three times but was unable to inflict any injury. Hui-neng said, “A just sword does not miss its mark; an unjust sword cannot strike true. I’ll give you money, but not my life.” Hsing-ch’ang fell over in a swoon. When he revived, he penitently begged Hui-neng to pity him and make him a monk. Handing him the money, Hui-neng said, “You had best leave. I’m afraid my followers might try to take revenge. In the future you can disguise yourself and come here again. I will receive you then.” Hsing-ch’ang followed Hui-neng’s advice and escaped into the night.
Afterward, he went to a priest and had himself ordained, receiving the full precepts and devoting himself to religious practice. One day, recalling Hui- neng’s words, he traveled to visit him. Hui-neng said, “You’ve been on my mind all this time. What has kept you so long?” Hsing-ch’ang said, “Before, you forgave my criminal behavior. Today, I am engaged in austere discipline as a monk. But I have been unable to find any way to requite your kindness. I will just do all I can to transmit the Dharma for the sake of others. I always study the Nirvana Sutra, but I haven’t been able to grasp the meaning of permanence and impermanence. Please, master, in your compassion, would you briefly explain it for me?” Hui-neng said, “Impermanence is the Buddha-nature. Per- manence is the mind that discriminates all the various dharmas good and bad.” “That’s not at all what the sutra says,” replied Hsing-ch’ang. “I transmit the seal of the Buddha-mind, why would I deliberately say something that is counter to the Buddha’s sutras?” said Hui-neng. “The sutra preaches that the Buddha- nature is permanent, but you say it is impermanent. The sutra says all dharmas good and bad and even the mind of enlightenment are impermanent. You say they are permanent,” said Hsing-ch’ang. “Those differences only deepen my doubt.” Hui-neng said, “Once when I heard the nun Wu Chin-tsang read the Nirvana Sutra, I made some impromptu comments on it. Not one of my words or their meaning was in disagreement with the sutra’s. It’s the same when I teach you. I never say anything different from the sutra.” Hsing-ch’ang said, “My powers of understanding are poor. Please, could you explain it in more detail?” Hui-neng said, “If the Buddha-nature were permanent, what would be the need to preach beyond that about all dharmas good and bad? Even in the passage of an entire kalpa, there would not be a single person who would ever raise the mind of enlightenment. That is why I preach impermanence, and that itself is the way of true permanence preached by the Buddha. If, on the other hand, all dharmas were impermanent, then each thing would have a selfhood and take part in birth-and-death, and there would be areas to which true permanence did not reach. Therefore, I preach permanence, and it is just the same as the meaning of true impermanence preached by the Buddha. The attachment to illusory permanence of unenlightened non-Buddhists, and the discriminations of followers of the two vehicles that take permanence as imper- manence—which together make up the eight topsy-turvy views—were refuted as distorted, one-sided views by the Buddha when he expounded his complete and perfect teaching of nirvana and made explicit the teaching of true permanence, true pleasure, true self, and true purity. By relying merely on words, you now subvert their inner meaning. If you mistake the perfect and subtle words the Buddha spoke just prior to his demise as indicating nihilistic imper- manence or lifeless permanence, you could get no benefit from the Nirvana Sutra, even though you read it a thousand times over. Hsing-ch’ang suddenly attained a great enlightenment. He made a verse:
Holding firmly to the mind of impermanence The Buddha preached permanence;
Those unaware of his skillful means
Just seize on a pebble in a spring pool. Though I now put forth no effort at all, Buddha-nature is right under my nose.
It is not received from my teacher, Nor is it something I gained either.
Hui-neng said, “You have penetrated it. I must give you the name Chih- ch’e (Aspiration Penetrates).” Chih-ch’e bowed in thanks and left (from the Platform Sutra of the Sixth Patriarch [Liu-tsu t’an-ching]).

(Translation taken from The Heart of Dogen's Shobogenzo translated by Norman Waddell and Masao Abe)
[9/10/21, 9:10:30 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Hui neng is saying impermanence is buddha nature (anatta) and furthermore all dharmas are non arising without selfhood (emptiness)
[9/10/21, 9:12:17 PM] Soh Wei Yu: So actually platform sutra leads to the seven phases lol first the hui neng koan what is your original face before thinking good and bad, then the teaching about impermanence is buddha nature and non arising of dharmas
[9/10/21, 9:23:43 PM] John Tan: Original face means to realize that appearances has always been one's radiance clarity, primordially luminous and naturally free.
[9/10/21, 9:23:56 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Oic..
[9/10/21, 9:31:32 PM] John Tan: Problem is most ppl that engaged in the so called highest teachings r having a dualistic and substantialist view.  If we do not recognize the nature of appearances and kept emphasizing on primordial knowing, taking the non-progressive is imo a great disservice than help.
[9/10/21, 9:33:28 PM] John Tan: Just like when u r at I M, u already like to talk about spontaneous presence which I caution u don't talk about that until at least mature non-dual.
[9/10/21, 9:37:43 PM] Soh Wei Yu: Ic.. lol yeah