Someone asked:

How do you recommend to break through to I AM? After a few years of self inquiry, it feels like that avenue is exhausted. How do I know I'm not wasting more time?

Soh replied:

How did you practice self enquiry? Do you fall into concepts or do you have glimpses of Being?

On self enquiry, see:

Soh's translation:
Yuan Yin Lao Ren:
In the past there was a Master who contemplated, "what is the original face before my parents were born?" He contemplated for many years, but did not awaken. Later on he encountered a great noble person and requested for his compassionate guidance. The noble one asked: "What koan did you contemplate?" He replied: "I contemplated what is the original face before my parents were born?" Noble one replied: "You contemplated too far away, should look nearby." He asked: "How should I look nearby?" Noble one replied: "Don't look into what is before your parents were born, need to look at: before a thought arise, what is it?" The Zen practitioner immediately attained great awakening.
Everyone that is sitting here, please look at what is this before a moment of thought's arising? IT is radiating light in front of everybody's [sense] doors, the brightness radiates everything yet is without the slightest clinging, nothing is known and nothing is seen yet it is not similar to wood and stones, what is This? IT is right here shining in its brilliancy, this is awakening to the Way. Therefore it is said, "the great way is not difficult, just cease speech and words"!

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Meditation and Self-Enquiry
I wrote this to my mother today in Chinese about the purpose of practicing and to encourage her to meditate. English translation below.
参禅是要参究本来面目是什么，自性是什么，不是要达到一种境界
是要发现，体悟，什么是自性、觉性。要达到完全没有疑惑才是”悟”
要一切念头断后还要回光返照，我是谁？在觉知的是什么？如果有念头回答是这个那个就错，因为答案不在语言文字，所以把念头舍掉再继续参、回光返照。这是明心最直接的法。
要每天打坐，元音老人叫弟子每天打坐两小时。
如果不能把心静下来到无念，很难开悟。你要想想你最容易把心静下的方法是什么？是打坐吗？还是念佛持咒？什么方法如果能安心都可以，可是要每天修，不能断断续续。
可是无念还不是开悟，达到无念时还要回光返照，找出了了分明的是谁，是什么，才能悟到自性，不然你的打坐只是一种静态，还没悟到自性。
悟到自性后只是明心，还不算是悟性（人法二空之理、登地菩萨），还要继续。所以”明心见性”其实是两个：先明心（真心），后见性。
所以要努力修到明心见性。
六祖慧能说过：不识本心学法无益。
English translation:
Contemplating Zen [Koan] is about inquiring what exactly is our original face, what is our Self-Nature, it is not about achieving a meditative state.
It is rather to discover, to realize, what exactly is our Self-Nature/Awareness. One must reach a state of utter doubtlessness/certainty to be considered '[Self-]Realization'.
After the utter cessation of all thoughts, one must turn one's light around to find out, What am I? What is it that is Aware? If there is a thought which answers 'it is this or that' then that's wrong, because the real answer lies not in words and letters. Therefore cast aside those thoughts and continue inquiring, turning the light around. This is the most direct method to apprehend one's Mind.
You should meditate everyday. Master Yuan Yin asks his student to meditate two hours a day.
If you are unable to quiet your mind to a state of no-thought, it will be difficult to realise. You should think carefully what is the best method for you to still your mind? Is it meditation? Or is it chanting the Buddha's name and reciting mantras? Whatever methods which calms the mind will do, but you have to practice everyday, not only practice intermittently or occasionally.
However, reaching a state of no-thought is not awakening. Upon reaching a state of no-thought, continue turning the light around to find out Who is that which is the Clear Knowingness? What is it? Then you will realise your Self-Nature. Otherwise your meditation is merely a state of stillness, not yet realising Self-Nature.
Realizing Self-Nature is only Apprehending one's Mind, it is not yet realizing Nature [the nature of mind and phenomena] (the principle of the twofold emptiness of persons and phenomena as realized by a first bhumi Bodhisattva), therefore one must continue. Hence, "Apprehending Mind and Realising Nature" consists of two parts: first apprehend one's Mind (True Mind), later realize [Empty] Nature.
Therefore practice hard to Apprehend Mind and Realize Nature.
The Sixth Ch'an Patriarch said: It is useless to learn the dharma without recognising original Mind.

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Mr. C: Hello Soh,

Soh Wei Yu: Malcolm rejects notion of unchanging awareness or turiya in sleep, says sleep is both unconscious and unaware:

https://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?p=671528#p671528

Malcolm:

" No, when you are unconscious, for example in deep sleep, you are also unaware. "


" You are just unconscious:

https://www.webmd.com/sleep-disorders/d ... deep-clean

When one is awake and aware, one's brain is very active."

" Yawn. Boring. Turiya is just an Advaita:imputation, "

Someone asked: " Are you denying the experience of those who claim to have a continuous sense of a 'knower' into deep sleep?"

Malcolm:

"Yes. Categorically. If they are aware when they are asleep, it isn't deep sleep. Not only that, people can claim anything. But how can one test the claim, "I am continuously aware in a state of deep sleep"? "


" I would argue it is not the case that experience and awareness are phenomenologically distinct. If we are color-blind for example, we cannot experience certain colors. so we are not aware of them. Same goes for certain kinds of deafness.

In deep sleep, our brains switch to delta waves. In this state we are not aware of the outside world nor do we "experience" it. If we are woken from deep sleep, we are generally startled awake. Experience is only conscious, never unconscious."

John Tan: 👍

Someone posted about non meditation but in order for people not to have the wrong idea that non meditation means the neo advaita notion of literally no need for meditation, I shared these excerpts:

Soh Wei Yu
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Coincidentally, I just read this on Kyle pdf yesterday:
Author: krodha
Date: Wed Dec 25, 2013 9:28 pm
Title: Re: In the KUNJED GYALPO says it is of no use to do rituals
Content:
You as an individual are the result of confusion (or ignorance) about your primordial state. Your primordial state is originally pure and is always undefiled, however your knowledge of that primordial state requires introduction and refinement. The kun byed rgyal po is saying that from the perspective of your primordial state [primordial wisdom i.e. ye shes], practice, rituals and so on are extraneous, because your primordial state is naturally perfected. You as an individual on the other hand, need to refine your knowledge of your primordial state, and therefore for you, practice and rituals and so on, are necessary. So it's a paradox. The ultimate state requires nothing, but you in your relative condition do require practice. When your knowledge of your primordial state is complete (through practice and integration), there will no longer be a difference between you and primordial wisdom. Until that time though, relative effort is required.
Author: krodha
Date: Wed Dec 25, 2013 10:01 pm
Title: Re: In the KUNJED GYALPO says it is of no use to do rituals
Content:
Skillful effort is required until the ultimate nature of mind [sems nyid] is recognized. Through that recognition, the ability to distinguish mind from wisdom occurs, and the practice then is to familiarize and rest in one's knowledge [rig pa] of wisdom [ye shes]. That practice is 'effortless', because effort necessarily entails a subject who is attempting to 'do something' or 'maintain something'. However there is nothing which is being 'done' in that sense, because that definitive rigpa is free of mind, and is therefore free of a subject which is mediating experience. So the praxis is simply resting in that effortless natural state.
The definitive practice is effortless, however initially, some (skillful) effort is required. Good that you're maintaining a relationship with a qualified teacher though, the seemingly contradictory paradoxes like the issue you've raised here are precisely why the guru is an indispensable aspect of Dzogchen.
Author: krodha
Date: Wed Dec 25, 2013 10:24 pm
Title: Re: In the KUNJED GYALPO says it is of no use to do rituals Content:
Yes, and here is a qualified teacher clarifying this point:
"Lopon comments that while the practitioner is not distracted but is continuously in the natural state it is as if he or she is in space - whatever is done, no traces are left behind. As we said, whether you paint black or white on space nothing remains. The base that keeps the traces is lost; it is empty.
Of course this only applies to a practitioner who has achieved continuous contemplation. For other people who still grasp at their karmic traces this does not apply. When the Lopon first came to Swayambhu in Nepal in 1944 he met some Tibetans with whom he travelled for some days. One man was a former monk who had a wife and children and was carrying a huge load of luggage on his back.
When he was a monk he had met Dega Rinpoche, a famous Dzogchenpa, in the mountains and consequentially he gave up his robes because he felt he was too tied up with the vinaya vows. But Lopon pointed out that he was equally tied up with his children. The man replied that in Dzogchen it is said that it does not matter what you do - so he was free to do anything and that was okay. But this is a complete misunderstanding of Dzogchen. The teachings only apply when you are totally absorbed in the natural state. It depends on your practice and only you can judge.
So it is a paradox that beginners must take actions even though the ultimate Dzogchen view has no action. The beginner must take a very strong action - a decision - otherwise there will be doubt and hesitancy. All the preparatory methods help us realize the natural state. But once it is seen and understood then the situation is different. The experience Dzogchenpa would not need to do preparatory practices at all."
- Lopon Tenzin Namdak
and another from him on the same issue:
"In the practice of Dzogchen, we do not find it necessary to do visualizations of deities or to do recitations like the Refuge and Bodhichitta. Some would say that these are not necessary to do at all, but this is speaking from the side of the Natural State only. They say in the Natural State, everything is present there already in potential, and so there is nothing lacking and nothing more to do to add or acquire anything. This is fine. But on the side of the practitioner, there is much to do and practices such as Refuge and Bodhichitta are very necessary. In its own terms, Dzogchen has no rules; it is open to everything. But does this mean we can do just what we feel like at the moment? On the side of the Natural State, this is true and there are no restrictions or limitations. All appearances are manifestations of mind (sems kyi snang-ba), like reflections seen in a mirror, and there is no inherent negativity or impurity in them. Everything is perfectly all right just as it is, as the energy (rtsal) of the Nature of Mind in manifestation. It is like white and black clouds passing overhead in the sky; they equally obscure the face of the sun. When they depart, there are no traces left behind. However, that is speaking only on the side of the Natural State, which is like the clear, open sky, unaffected by the presence or absence of these clouds. For the sky, it is all the same. But on the side of the practitioner, it is quite different because we mistakenly believe these clouds are solid, opaque, and quite real and substantial. As practitioners we must first come to an understanding of the insubstantiality and unreality of all these clouds which obscure the sky of our own Nature of Mind (sems-nyid). It is our Tawa (lta-ba), or view, our way of looking at things, which is basic and fundamental, and we must begin here. Then we must practice and attain realization. So on the side of the practitioner, practice and commitment are most certainly required. The Natural State in itself is totally open and clear and spacious like the sky but we, as individuals, are not totally open and unobstructed.”
- Lopon Tenzin Namdak
Author: krodha
Date: Thu Dec 26, 2013 1:25 am
Title: Re: In the KUNJED GYALPO says it is of no use to do rituals
Content:
The kun byed rgyal po is speaking from the ultimate standpoint as primordial wisdom. The system of Dzogchen is a means to recognize primordial wisdom, integrate with primordial wisdom, and then actualize buddhahood. That is what practice is for.
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Sim Pern Chong
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Soh Wei Yu So clear. Thanks for sharing.
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Soh Wei Yu
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Author: krodha
Date: Mon Oct 07, 2013 5:19 pm Title: Re: Integration
Content:
Jean-Luc Achard on integration:
"Oh yes there are plenty of things to do. Rushen for instance in order to clearly deepen this knowledge and have a direct experience that is not produced by our discursiveness. Then, the training of the 3 doors. Then specific techniques such as the Four Natural Accesses to properly access the state of Trekcho. You seem to imply that there is nothing to do: there are things to do to enter this state, and once you're in it you just cultivate it by integrating other things (after having become familiarized with it). This appears to be not understood at all in this discussion. When you are in this state, you just have to stabilize it. This takes the whole path to do so! (Don't bypass it because you don't like it, it's precisely like this, one has to practice, period). You may state otherwise but this is
not Dzogchen anymore. This is Chan. We don't accept Chan as having a definitive perspective on the natural state in Dzogchen. This is a sutra-based approach which is at best dualistic (the 2 truths) or at worst nihilistic (don't do nothing). Then, what is happening in the meditation? Nothing, nothing at all. No integration. Once you are stable in the experience of the natural, you realize that this experience is uncompounded, unaltered, etc., and you don't have to do anything to correct it. But in general everybody (including our masters at a stage in their life) regresses from it. So one has to become familiar with it, through contemplation practice. But this contemplation practice is aimless if it just mean sitting and doing nothing. That means that each time you quit your sitting meditation, you are regressing from that state because ordinary life is particularly good at putting you back into an ego- centered life. But, if you want to integrate the natural state in a non-regressive way, you have to do something (otherwise it does not do it by itselt just for you). And integration is the very purpose of Trekcho otherwise your Thogel is not going to go very far. So again, i'm sorry to repeat it, but in while in the Trekcho state, you have to integrate 4 things (please Jax learn this by heart, I wrote it several times but you by-pass it constantly whereas it is the core of Trekcho practice and of all Dzogchen practices):
1. integration of the activities of the 3 doors (there are specific things to integrate here, very precise), 2. integration of the six sense consciousnesses (also specific things here too),
3. integration of thoughts (same as above), and
4. integration of various things (this larger in scope but precise too).
I'm not enumerating this list out of my imagination. This is precisely what one has TO DO in Trekcho practice. If your Trekcho and experience of the natural state consists in doing nothing, then your result is nothing. If you try to integrate the 4 modalities listed above (and you have a lot of specific practices in there), then you integrate your whole being to the natural state and that is real Trekcho." - Jean-Luc Achard
P.s. this is adding context to what Lama Lena said above and is not in any way contradicting what Lama Lena has said
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Soh Wei Yu
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Another nice quote:
Dudjom Rinpoche explains:
"The mere recognition of vidyā will not liberate you. Throughout your lives from beginningless time, you have been enveloped in false beliefs and deluded habits. From then till now you have spent every moment as a miserable, pathetic slave of your thoughts! And when you die, it’s not at all certain where you will go. You will follow your karma, and you will have to suffer. This is the reason
why you must meditate, continuously preserving the sate of vidyā you have been introduced to. The omniscient Longchenpa has said, 'You may recognize your own nature, but if you do not meditate and get used to it, you will be like a baby left on a battlefield: you’ll be carried off by the enemy, the hostile army of your own thoughts!' In general terms, meditation means becoming famiIiar with the state of resting in the primordial uncontrived nature, through being spontaneously, naturally, constantly mindful. It means getting used to leaving the state of vidyā alone, divested of all distraction and clinging."
….
From kyle pdf post:
Title: Re: In the KUNJED GYALPO says it is of no use to do rituals
Content:
I posted some of this elsewhere but it is relevant here and explains my point:
The guru gives you pointing out instructions, you recognize primordial wisdom, you rest in that knowledge [vidyā], unerringly, and that is the path. When that knowledge ripens to it's full measure your vidyā is dharmakāya, and you are a buddha. The basis, path and result are never apart from vidyā, because they are simply the refinement of vidyā via the exhaustion of traces. Our illusory and deluded experiences as sentient beings, are merely the complex interaction of these karmic traces, habitual tendencies and afflictive propensities.
Buddhahood is only attained when these propensities are exhausted, as Longchenpa elucidates: "Ordinary beings are truly buddhas, but this fact is obscured by adventitious distortions, once these are removed, truly there is buddhahood."
There is no method to apply other than resting in vidyā. The path is familiarization, stabilization and integration in that view [tib. ta wa]. It is crucial that the view is maintained tenaciously and one cultivates non-distraction. If this isn't performed skillfully, then there is undoubtably a danger of regression into deluded mind. In time the view will become more and more effortless, however initially it is important to rely on practice and so on.
This principle is identical to the three testaments of Garab Dorje: (i) Introduction to one's nature [basis], (ii) Confidence in one's nature [path], (iii) Continuation in one's nature [result].
Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche:
"A seeming confusion obscures the recognition of the basis [gzhi]. Fortunately, this seeming delusion is temporary. This failure to recognize the basis is similar to dreaming. Dreaming is not primordial; it is temporary, it can be purified. Purification happens through training on the path. We have strayed from the basis and become sentient beings. To free the basis from what obscures it, we have to train. Right now, we are on the path and have not yet attained the result. When we are freed from obscuration, then the result - dharmakāya - appears. The liberated basis, path and result are all perfected in the realm of the single essence, the continuity of rig pa [vidyā].
In fact, there is no difference whatsoever between the basis and result. In the state of the basis the enlightened qualities are not acknowledged, but they are manifest at the time of the result. These are not new qualities that suddenly appear, but are like the qualities of a flower that are inherent in the seed. Within the seed are the characteristics of the flower itself. The seed holds the potential for the flower's color, smell, bud and leaves. However, can we say that the seed is the result of the flower? No, we cannot, because the flower has not fully bloomed. Like this analogy, the qualities of the result are contained in the state of the basis; yet, they are not evident or manifest. That is the difference between the basis and the result. At the time of the path, if we do not apply effort, the result will not appear."
So even after recognition the view must be maintained, this is what practice is for, otherwise karmic propensities will cause distraction and deviation to arise in one's condition, as Dudjom Rinpoche explains:
"The mere recognition of vidyā will not liberate you. Throughout your lives from beginningless time, you have been enveloped in false beliefs and deluded habits. From then till now you have spent every moment as a miserable, pathetic slave of your thoughts! And when you die, it’s not at all certain where you will go. You will follow your karma, and you will have to suffer. This is the reason
why you must meditate, continuously preserving the sate of vidyā you have been introduced to. The omniscient Longchenpa has said, 'You may recognize your own nature, but if you do not meditate and get used to it, you will be like a baby left on a battlefield: you’ll be carried off by the enemy, the hostile army of your own thoughts!' In general terms, meditation means becoming famiIiar with the state of resting in the primordial uncontrived nature, through being spontaneously, naturally, constantly mindful. It means getting used to leaving the state of vidyā alone, divested of all distraction and clinging."
Author: krodha
Date: Sun Jan 26, 2014 10:03 pm
Title: Re: In the KUNJED GYALPO says it is of no use to do rituals
Content:
Actually this passage from Dudjom Rinpoche is even better:
"Similarly: first, the rigpa [vidyā] of having had the introduction is like the first part of the early dawn; in the middle, the rigpa of having gained assurance, free from equipoise and post-attainment is like the daybreak; and finally the rigpa of having gained liberation from extremes is like the sun shining."
And Mipham Rinpoche states:
"The training of rigpa comes in three steps: recognition, training and finalization."
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"Yes. Conventionally, there are external objects and self, ultimately they are empty and there is no contradiction. Spontaneous presence and dependent arising, they are neither same nor different too. When mind conceptualizes and separates, parts and whole originate dependently and empty, that is precisely because the natural state is free and spontaneous."

 - John Tan