Jill Bolte Taylor and the Two Important Factors for Advaita

I like her video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyyjU8fzEYU




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 Session Start: Friday, March 21, 2008

(5:55 PM) AEN:    bar. I thought "that's very peculiar" and I looked down at my body and I thought, "whoa, I'm a weird-looking thing." And it was as though my consciousness had shifted away from my normal perception of reality, where I'm the person on the machine having the experience, to some esoteric space where I'm witnessing myself having this experience.

And it was all every peculiar and my headache was just getting worse, so I get off the machine, and I'm walking across my living room floor, and I realize that everything inside of my body has slowed way down. And every step is very rigid and very deliberate. There's no fluidity to my pace, and there's this constriction in my area of perceptions so I'm just focused on internal systems. And I'm standing in my bathroom getting ready to step into the shower and I could actually hear the dialog inside of my body. I heard a little voice saying, "OK, you muscles, you gotta contract, you muscles you relax."

And I lost my balance and I'm propped up against the wall. And I look down at my arm and I realize that I can no longer define the boundaries of m
(5:55 PM) AEN:    

And I lost my balance and I'm propped up against the wall. And I look down at my arm and I realize that I can no longer define the boundaries of my body. I can't define where I begin and where I end. Because the atoms and the molecules of my arm blended with the atoms and molecules of the wall. And all I could detect was this energy. Energy. And I'm asking myself, "What is wrong with me, what is going on?" And in that moment, my brain chatter, my left hemisphere brain chatter went totally silent. Just like someone took a remote control and pushed the mute button and -- total silence.

And at first I was shocked to find myself inside of a silent mind. But then I was immediately captivated by the magnificence of energy around me. And because I could no longer identify the boundaries of my body, I felt enormous and expansive. I felt at one with all the energy that was, and it was beautiful there.
(5:56 PM) AEN:    
When I awoke later that afternoon I was shocked to discover that I was still alive. When I felt my spirit surrender, I said goodbye to my life, and my mind is now suspended between two very opposite planes of reality. Stimulation coming in through my sensory systems felt like pure pain. Light burned my brain like wildfire and sounds were so loud and chaotic that I could not pick a voice out from the background noise and I just wanted to escape. Because I could not identify the position of my body in space, I felt enormous and expensive, like a genie just liberated from her bottle. And my spirit soared free like a great whale gliding through the sea of silent euphoria. Harmonic. I remember thinking there's no way I would ever be able to squeeze the enormousness of myself back inside this tiny little body.

But I realized "But I'm still alive! I'm still alive and I have found Nirvana. And if I have found Nirvana and I'm still alive, then everyone who is alive can find Nirvana." I picture a world filled with beautiful, peaceful, compassionate, loving people who knew that they could com
(5:57 PM) AEN:    

So who are we? We are the life force power of the universe, with manual dexterity and two cognitive minds. And we have the power to choose, moment by moment, who and how we want to be in the world. Right here right now, I can step into the consciousness of my right hemisphere where we are -- I am -- the life force power of the universe, and the life force power of the 50 trillion beautiful molecular geniuses that make up my form. At one with all that is. Or I can choose to step into the consciousness of my left hemisphere. where I become a single individual, a solid, separate from the flow, separate from you. I am Dr. Jill Bolte Taylor, intellectual, neuroanatomist. These are the "we" inside of me.
(5:57 PM) AEN:    is this like stage 2?
(5:57 PM) AEN:    http://buddhism.sgforums.com/forums/1728/topics/310956?page=2
(5:57 PM) AEN:    

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyyjU8fzEYU
(6:06 PM) AEN:    gd video

Session Start: Friday, March 21, 2008

(6:18 PM) AEN:    oic then wat is it
(6:20 PM) Thusness:    Stage 1.
(6:20 PM) AEN:    oic but she said
(6:21 PM) AEN:     And I look down at my arm and I realize that I can no longer define the boundaries of my body. I can't define where I begin and where I end. Because the atoms and the molecules of my arm blended with the atoms and molecules of the wall.
(6:21 PM) AEN:    And all I could detect was this energy. Energy. A
(6:21 PM) AEN:    ...But then I was immediately captivated by the magnificence of energy around me. And because I could no longer identify the boundaries of my body, I felt enormous and expansive. I felt at one with all the energy that was, and it was beautiful there.
(6:22 PM) Thusness:    yes
(6:22 PM) Thusness:    that is just stage 1.
(6:22 PM) Thusness:    That is oceanic
(6:22 PM) AEN:    oic but he said fusing with the wall?
(6:22 PM) AEN:    oic
(6:22 PM) AEN:    *she
(6:22 PM) Thusness:    not any that uses the word 'fusing' is stage two lah
(6:22 PM) Thusness:    ai yoo...
(6:22 PM) AEN:    lol
(6:23 PM) AEN:    she din say fuse she say Because the atoms and the molecules of my arm blended with the atoms and molecules of the wall.
(6:23 PM) AEN:    so its more like stage 1?
(6:24 PM) Thusness:    That is just for ur knowledge.
(6:24 PM) Thusness:    what u experienced is just a glimpse...for stage 1.
(6:24 PM) Thusness:    but u have not experienced the 'oceanic' effect yet
(6:24 PM) AEN:    icic..
(6:25 PM) Thusness:    She is good. :)
(6:25 PM) AEN:    u read her transcript or the youtube?
(6:25 PM) Thusness:    youtube.
(6:25 PM) AEN:    icic..
(6:26 PM) Thusness:    from the transcript, it doesn't sound that good.
(6:26 PM) Thusness:    she is still in stroke.
(6:27 PM) AEN:    wat u mean
(6:28 PM) AEN:    btw wat bks u bought
(6:29 PM) Thusness:    Peaceful Death, Joyful, Rebirth by Tulku Thondup
(6:29 PM) Thusness:    and As It Is by Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche
(6:29 PM) AEN:    icic..
(6:31 PM) Thusness:    She has experienced the "I AM"
(6:32 PM) AEN:    oic..
(6:32 PM) Thusness:    but that does not mean she is any less enlightened than a person at stage 4
(6:32 PM) Thusness:    it is just the insight
(6:33 PM) Thusness:    several important aspects of awareness aren't there yet
(6:33 PM) AEN:    icic..
(6:34 PM) Thusness:    the insight is important but the 2 factors about advaita vedanta practitioners are also very important.
(6:34 PM) Thusness:    without it, there is hardly intense and sustainable meditative experience.
(6:34 PM) AEN:    oic..
(6:35 PM) AEN:    so u mean she don have the 2 factors?
(6:36 PM) Thusness:    she has the two factors.
(6:36 PM) AEN:    icic..
(6:36 PM) Thusness:    what she need is to know the 'forms' of awareness
(6:36 PM) Thusness:    non-dual
(6:36 PM) Thusness:    anatta
(6:37 PM) Thusness:    and finally, emptiness and self liberation
(6:37 PM) AEN:    oic..
(6:38 PM) Thusness:    in the non-dual context, there is still the deep sense of unchangingness, independence and permanence
(6:38 PM) Thusness:    in the experience of anatta, there is no self.  The vividness of 'forms' is known as it without background.
(6:39 PM) Thusness:    the insight becomes completely clear in stage 5.  It is an 'already is' natural state of pristine awareness.  Always so.
(6:40 PM) AEN:    icic..
(6:45 PM)    Thusness has changed his/her status to Idle

-- on jill bolte taylor


earlier:
(7:51 PM) Thusness:    Furthermore what you were told in one of ur post is that there are 2 important factors that you have to be aware:
(7:51 PM) Thusness:    Those that i wrote.
(7:52 PM) Thusness:    Then tell him that what u have written are summaries over the years of conversation with me.  It is not necessarily ur experiences.
(7:53 PM) AEN:    icic..
(7:57 PM)    Thusness has changed his/her status to Idle
(8:07 PM) AEN:    Furthermore what you were told in one of ur post is that there are 2 important factors that you have to be aware:
(8:08 PM) AEN:    Although the 'teaching of anatta' helps to prevent you from landing into wrong views, the downside is it also denies you from experiencing that deep and ultimate conviction, that certainty beyond doubt of your very own existence -- "I AM'.  This is a very important factor for Advaita practitioners.



The next important factor is the duration of this non-dual experience must be prolonged; long enough for you to enter into a sort of absorption that the experience becomes 'oceanic'.
(8:08 PM) AEN:    this?
(8:11 PM)    Thusness has changed his/her status to Online
(8:11 PM) Thusness:    yes

(8:11 PM) Thusness:      finished makan

(8:11 PM) AEN: icic ok

(8:12 PM) Thusness:      with practice the experience of non-duality can be sustained normally through sufficient elimination of 'self'.

(8:13 PM) Thusness:      but the sense of permanence, independence and unchangingness remain.

(8:13 PM) AEN: posted http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?showtopic=66843&st=0&p=908657&#entry908657

(8:14 PM) Thusness:      This resulted in distancing itself from the transients which is in essence Awareness itself.  There is nothing to distant.

(8:14 PM) AEN: icic..

(8:14 PM) Thusness:      There is a poem I wrote in the awakeningfromdreams forum.

(8:14 PM) Thusness:      to awakening.

(8:15 PM) AEN: leo's forum?

(8:17 PM) Thusness:      yes

(8:20 PM) AEN: oic

(8:20 PM) AEN: which poem

(8:20 PM) AEN: btw my post ok?

(8:21 PM) Thusness:      haven't read yet

(8:21 PM) Thusness:      there is no this that is more 'this' than 'that'

(8:21 PM) Thusness:      this poem.

(8:21 PM) AEN: oic

(8:25 PM) Thusness:      There is no this that is more this than that.

Although thought arises and ceases vividly,

Every arising and ceasing remains as entire as it can be.

 

The emptiness nature that is ever manifesting presently

Has not in anyway denied its own luminosity.

 

Although non-dual is seen with clarity,

The urge to remain can still blind subtly.

Like a passerby that passes, is gone completely.

Die utterly

(8:25 PM) Thusness:      And bear witness of this pure presence, its non-locality.

(8:26 PM) Thusness:      This is suitable for him for he think Awareness is 'special' and 'ultimate' and different from the transient mind.

(8:26 PM) AEN: icic..

(8:26 PM) AEN: i paste this ?

(8:26 PM) Thusness:      Summarized a bit lah

(8:27 PM) AEN: oh.. but its quite short mah :P

(8:27 PM) AEN: u mean in non-poem form?

(8:27 PM) AEN: as in write in normal text

(8:28 PM) Thusness:      poem

(8:29 PM) Thusness:      but u must bring out the point that Awareness is not any 'special' and 'ultimate' and different from the transient mind.


.....





    • William Lim
    So maybe can induce "I-AM"ness by activating or deactivating some part of the brain?


    Soh Wei Yu
    William Lim Can. It is not so much of induce but unveiling the obscurations which prevent the direct realization of Presence, much like clouds dissipating revealing the sun that was there all along.
    But 99.9% of people with stroke didnt have the I AM realization. Likewise, some people had the I AM awakening during high dose psychedelics. But most people who tried psychedelics didn't have it. Some people realized it through NDE. But many didn't... and so on.
    Much more reliable, time tested and safer way is to practice meditation and self enquiry.
    Also the I AM realization is just a beginning, it is not yet liberation.
    As the Dalai Lama said, "Dodrup Jigme Tenpai Nyima (1865–1926) and his disciple Tsultrim Zangpo (1884–c.1957), who were great Dzogchen scholars and practitioners, said that the mere presence of this primordial wisdom within us alone cannot liberate us. Why not? At the time of death, all other minds have dissolved, and only the primordial mind remains. Even though it has manifested in all the infinite number of deaths we have experienced in saṃsāra, that has not helped us attain buddhahood. These two sages say that in order to attain buddhahood, it is necessary to utilize the primordial wisdom to realize emptiness; only that will liberate us. This is consistent with Tsongkhapa’s view. " -- http://www.awakeningtoreality.com/.../dalai-lama-on...
    And also this is related to the countless people who had the I AM awakening during NDEs and so on. Actually when we die, we will have a glimpse of it, but then we get reborn again because latent tendencies of reifying I-me-mine is still intact even with the I AM awakening.
    The same mechanism that lead to I AM awakening in afterlife also applies to stroke:
    Dalai Lama on Dzogchen, Mahamudra, Emptiness and Buddha Nature
    AWAKENINGTOREALITY.COM
    Dalai Lama on Dzogchen, Mahamudra, Emptiness and Buddha Nature
    Dalai Lama on Dzogchen, Mahamudra, Emptiness and Buddha Nature

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    • Soh Wei Yu
    And John wrote in 2008,
    Originally posted by longchen [Sim Pern Chong]:
    Watched the video .. a bit. Desteni is quite popular in the new age scene.
    Just my opinion...
    When we die, the thoughts and emotions can be dissolve in the death process... and what is left is the non-dual , all pervading experience of Presence. Here is usually when a 'being' discovered that it is not just the thought and emotion. But, the understanding is not clear here.
    For those on an enlightenment path, we sort of 'experience death' before physical death. This experience of death happens many many times while still physically alive. And with gradual experiences, we understand the nature of the reality better.
    In another word, we become more efficient and discard those ways of dealings that are not very helpful... Something like that...
    Thusness / John Tan replied:
    Hi Longchen,
    Must be having a challenging time sustaining the vivid presence of non-dual experience. Just to share with you some of my thoughts:
    When we die, the thoughts and emotions that are karmically linked to the body are temporarily suspended. The contrast in experience that resulted from the dissolution of the ‘bond of a body’ gives rise to a more vivid experience of Presence; although the experience of Presence is there, the insight into its non-dual essence and emptiness nature isn’t there. This is similar to the experience of “I AM”. Thoughts and emotions will continue to arise and subside with the bond of ‘I’ and ‘Mine’ after death.
    Awareness is always non-dual and all pervading; obscured but not lost. In essence all manifestation, transient (emotions, thoughts or feelings) is really the manifold of Presence. They have the same non-dual essence and empty nature. All problems lie not at the manifestation level but at the fundamental level. Deep in us we see things inherently and dualistically. How the experience of Presence can be distorted with the ‘bond’ of dualistic and inherent seeing maybe loosely categorized as:
    1. There is a mirror reflecting dust. (“I AM”)
    Mirror bright is experienced but distorted. Dualistic and Inherent seeing.
    2. Dust is required for the mirror to see itself.
    Non-Dualistic but Inherent seeing. (Beginning of non-dual insight)
    3. Dust has always been the mirror ( The mirror here is seen as a whole)
    Non-Dualistic and non- inherent insight.
    In 3, whatever comes and goes is the Rigpa itself. There is no Rigpa other than that. All along there is no dust really, only when a particular speck of dust claims that it is the purest and truest state then immediately all other arising which from beginning are self- mirroring become dust.
    -- http://www.awakeningtoreality.com/.../buddhist-dies-and... "Buddhist Dies and Spends an Eternity in the Light, then Comes Back to Share this Message"
    Buddhist Dies and Spends an Eternity in the Light, then Comes Back to Share this Message
    AWAKENINGTOREALITY.COM
    Buddhist Dies and Spends an Eternity in the Light, then Comes Back to Share this Message
    Buddhist Dies and Spends an Eternity in the Light, then Comes Back to Share this Message

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    • William Lim
    Would be interesting if medical science can look into it and do some serious studies on the topic.. and maybe uncover a physical way to "unveil distorted perception". Can be a great supplement to meditation and self-enquiry.
    As you said, I AM is just the beginning and there is more to go. So it'll be great if there are more ways to get more people pass through this first stage.


    • Soh Wei Yu
    Maybe one day they will invent a drug that can reliably induce spiritual awakening of at least the I AMness, much like 5 Meo DMT but without the dangers of bad trips and psychosis.
    But even if it were invented, it is not the path... it can only give you a glimpse. You need to master shamatha and vipashyana for liberation. It is a practice. Nobody can force you to put in the effort and discipline to meditate, for example...

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    • Soh Wei Yu
    There are no short cuts to liberation.


    • Sim Pern Chong
    We go through this before waking up from sleep and immediately after death. It is just that we never notice it most of the time. 😁








    • Sim Pern Chong
    She is very humorous 😆

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How to breakthrough to anatman from I AM phase

 Mr H: Thank you mate, I will look into everything focused and calmly this week.

I want to ask you beforehand, what would in your opinion be the most important part of "practise" to reach anatta ?


To be more specific, did you incorporate any new habit of meditating, thinking or living in order to reach anatta, and if you did, what would you say would be the most important factor ?


I might realise what to do after reading the information you sent but I wanted to ask you right now out of curiosity :)




Soh replied:

for me the most important is to 1) have the right view at least intellectually at first, so that one can know what to investigate/contemplate/challenge (one's deluded sense of inherent existence and duality), for example.


reading through the articles above** will help you with that.



2) after I AM, i focused on the four aspects of I AM, which served as a pre condition for successful nondual and anatta contemplation -- http://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2018/12/four-aspects-of-i-am.html



3) personally, contemplating on bahiya sutta led to my anatman breakthrough, see http://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2008/01/ajahn-amaro-on-non-duality-and.html and http://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2010/10/my-commentary-on-bahiya-sutta.html , http://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2011/10/a-zen-exploration-of-bahiya-sutta.html , http://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2022/12/the-sutta-about-bahiya.html


4) these articles has also led others to the anatman breakthrough: http://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2009/03/on-anatta-emptiness-and-spontaneous.html and http://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2018/12/two-types-of-nondual-contemplation.html




**"the articles above" refers to my earlier sharing with him:


these links will be helpful, you can slowly go through them but focus particularly on the first four that are numbered 1 to 4, excerpt taken from http://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2007/03/mistaken-reality-of-amness.html : 
 
Soh to someone at the I AM phase: In my AtR (awakening to reality community), more than 60+ people have realised anatta and most have went through the same phases (from I AM to non dual to anatta ... and many have now went into twofold emptiness), and you are most welcomed to join our online community if you wish: https://www.facebook.com/groups/AwakeningToReality
For practical purpose, if you had the I AM awakening, and focus on contemplating and practicing based on these articles, you will be able to awaken the anatta insight within a year. Plenty of people get stuck at I AM for decades or lifetimes, but I progressed from I AM to anatta realisation within a year due to guidance from John Tan and focusing on the following contemplations:


1) The Four Aspects of I AM , http://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2018/12/four-aspects-of-i-am.html

2) The Two Nondual Contemplations , https://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2018/12/two-types-of-nondual-contemplation.html

3) The Two Stanzas of Anatta , http://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2009/03/on-anatta-emptiness-and-spontaneous.html

4) Bahiya Sutta , http://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2008/01/ajahn-amaro-on-non-duality-and.html and http://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2010/10/my-commentary-on-bahiya-sutta.html


its important to go into the textures and forms of awareness, not just dwell on formless... then with contemplating the two stanzas of anatta, you will breakthrough to nondual anatta


here's an excerpt from another good article 

“It is extremely difficult to express what is ‘Isness’. Isness is awareness as forms. It is a pure sense of presence yet encompassing the ‘transparent concreteness’ of forms. There is a crystal clear sensations of awareness manifesting as the manifold of phenomenal existence. If we are vague in the experiencing of this ‘transparent concreteness’ of Isness, it is always due to that ‘sense of self’ creating the sense of division… ...you must stress the ‘form’ part of awareness. It is the ‘forms’, it is the ‘things’.” - John Tan, 2007
 
 
 
These articles can also help:
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Early Forum Posts by Thusness - https://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2013/09/early-forum-posts-by-thusness_17.html (as Thusness said himself, these early forum posts are suitable for guiding someone from I AM to nondual and anatta), 
 
 
 
 
 

 
 
you can contemplate on the anatta stanzas
xabir Snoovatar

and see this convo:
xabir Snoovatar

"Session Start: Monday, September 22, 2008

(12:31 PM) AEN: hi i replied you just now
(12:31 PM) AEN: i mean forum
(12:54 PM) Thusness: don't talk about effortless and spontaneity
(12:54 PM) Thusness: if we look at Isis question, why is it so?
(12:54 PM) Thusness: why is there fear and phobia?
(12:55 PM) Thusness: What is mind?
(12:56 PM) AEN: bcos of past experiences right
(12:56 PM) AEN: like something happened before
(12:56 PM) AEN: and so when he/she experience something (like dog)
(12:57 PM) AEN: then he/she will react through conditioned thinking
(12:57 PM) AEN: so give rise to fear
(12:57 PM) Thusness: you are using logical reasoning
(12:57 PM) AEN: its like habitual reaction
(12:58 PM) AEN: or karmic propensity?
(12:58 PM) Thusness: all experiences that resulted has just one impact, they becomes imprints
(12:58 PM) AEN: oic
(12:58 PM) Thusness: so what is mind?
(12:58 PM) AEN: imprints and mental activities?
(12:58 PM) Thusness: you must feel it
(12:59 PM) Thusness: it is not an entity...
(12:59 PM) Thusness: it is a tendency
(12:59 PM) Thusness: that is not as an entity...u still have that sensation as if it is a Witness, an entity because you cannot feel this truth yet.
(1:00 PM) Thusness: can you see that mind As an arising tendency
(1:01 PM) AEN: the other day when meditating i had a sense suddenly that my entire mind is just tendencies arising, and there is like no thinker
(1:01 PM) Thusness: yes
(1:02 PM) Thusness: you must first feel this truth with your entire being
(1:02 PM) Thusness: like what Jeff Foster said, 'YOU' are just an arising thought
(1:02 PM) AEN: oic
(1:02 PM) Thusness: don't worry too much how it arises and how it subsides
(1:03 PM) Thusness: for now, you must see 'what is'
(1:03 PM) Thusness: a thought arises, then subsides
(1:03 PM) Thusness: then sound, then subsides
(1:03 PM) Thusness: then another thought arises
(1:04 PM) Thusness: what is thought?
(1:04 PM) AEN: just thought lor
(1:04 PM) AEN: awareness?
(1:04 PM) Thusness: no good
(1:04 PM) AEN: its like a kind of phenomena just like sound, sight, etc
(1:05 PM) AEN: but a different kind
(1:05 PM) Thusness: very good
(1:05 PM) Thusness: very good. 🙂
(1:05 PM) Thusness: what sort of phenomena?
(1:05 PM) AEN: dunnu how to describe it leh
(1:05 PM) AEN: mental phenomena?
(1:05 PM) Thusness: haha...
(1:05 PM) Thusness: yes what is it like?
(1:06 PM) AEN: images recalled, mental reasoning, arising in the mind?
(1:07 PM) Thusness: yes
(1:07 PM) AEN: words, etc
(1:07 PM) Thusness: but what that is more important, it is a 'knowing' or 'luminous' phenomenon
(1:07 PM) AEN: icic..
(1:08 PM) Thusness: an arising thought, then another arising thought
(1:08 PM) AEN: oic..
(1:08 PM) Thusness: each thought is 'luminous'
(1:08 PM) Thusness: first you must know this
(1:08 PM) Thusness: but if you see it from all previous experiences, you 'see' differently.
(1:09 PM) Thusness: what is seen is 'An Eternal Witness' sort of experience.
(1:09 PM) Thusness: is it not true?
(1:10 PM) AEN: yea
(1:10 PM) AEN: and theres a subtle tendency to push away all thoughts rather than simple see everything as it is
(1:10 PM) AEN: or rather
(1:10 PM) AEN: attempt to be the background awareness
(1:10 PM) Thusness: yes the tendency to push, to relate to a 'center' a source
(1:10 PM) Thusness: to be a container, a background
(1:11 PM) Thusness: you must feel the differences
(1:11 PM) AEN: icic..
(1:12 PM) Thusness: it is just a tendency to relate back to a source and refuses to 'see' what is.
(1:13 PM) Thusness: every arising of a thought carries with it deeply rooted imprints
(1:13 PM) Thusness: that 'blinds'
(1:13 PM) AEN: oic..
(1:14 PM) AEN: and the eternal witness is the thought of what is and what isnt awareness right, then becomes a tendency
(1:14 PM) AEN: to sink back to a center
(1:14 PM) Thusness: yes
(1:14 PM) Thusness: but first you must understand 'thought'
(1:14 PM) AEN: icic..
(1:15 PM) Thusness: a thought is luminous
(1:15 PM) Thusness: a luminous arising mental phenomena
(1:15 PM) AEN: oic..
(1:15 PM) Thusness: isn't it?
(1:16 PM) AEN: yes
(1:16 PM) Thusness: besides that what else? Isn't it always so?
(1:16 PM) Thusness: 'You are just an arising thought'
(1:17 PM) Thusness: a luminous thought at this moment 'looking' back, relating
(1:17 PM) Thusness: pondering
(1:17 PM) Thusness: in thinking, there is only thoughts
(1:17 PM) AEN: oic..
(1:17 PM) Thusness: now meditate on the stanza
(1:18 PM) Thusness: in thinking there is only thought
(1:18 PM) Thusness: in hearing, there is only sound
(1:18 PM) Thusness: just this two lines is enough
(1:19 PM) AEN: icic..
(1:21 PM) AEN: so whenever thoughts, tendency arise, we should just experience the thought as it is
(1:21 PM) AEN: as luminous
(1:21 PM) Thusness: no
(1:22 PM) Thusness: you must first understand clearly what is meant by no-self
(1:23 PM) Thusness: but know what is thought first.
(1:23 PM) Thusness: then understand anatta
(1:23 PM) AEN: oic..
(1:31 PM) Thusness: What is the different between in 'thinking, no thinker' and in thinking, only thoughts?
(1:31 PM) AEN: the luminosity of the thought is not thoroughly experienced even though there is insight into no split?
(1:31 PM) AEN: i dunno
(1:32 PM) Thusness: until you understand, then tell me.
(1:32 PM) Thusness: 😛
(1:32 PM) AEN: lol ok
(1:35 PM) AEN: in thinking, only thought, means each thought is discrete and complete?
(1:35 PM) AEN: no linking
(1:37 PM) AEN: before that there is still chaining of one thought with another?
(1:39 PM) Thusness: okie..so so only...anyway you have not understood the real essence of being unsupported, discrete and complete yet.
(1:40 PM) AEN: icic..
(1:40 PM) Thusness: just meditate on the first 2 lines : in thinking, just thoughts and in hearing, just sound
(1:40 PM) AEN: ok"

you can also read this: http://www.awakeningtoreality.com/2008/11/few-excerpts-from-clarifying-natural.html
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