Sim Pern Chong shared:
“ https://www.monroeinstituteuk.org/focus-levels/
Just my own understanding and experience.
Mapping the Focus to likely realms and experiences:
Focus 15 : the experience of I AM, timelessness or Eternal Now
Focus 24-26 : this is the realms most human Beings 'goes' to after death. This is the astral realms.. ranging from 'heaven' to' hungry ghost realm'..
Focus 42 (I-there): this is the Unbounded Alaya. It is much harder to access this than Focus 15. Here it is not just a Presence. It is the direct knowing/ perception of the manifestations across lifetimes. Anatta insight cannot directly see the 'cause and effect' in realtime . The cause and effect is perceived here.. and is more nuanced and complex.. as one seems to be able to also plan what to inhibit or constraint.. That means the 'unpleasant' things in life can be self-imposed for purposes unknown to the human body/mind. Monroe called it the I-there.. i can understand. Because the 'self', 'I' is already assumed as this level. 'Self' is not only formed at the body/mind.. it is much deeper at this level. IMO, very few has ever access this level (even after death) .. Most death destinations are at FOCUS 24-26.. Hence, NDEs are not any reliable source of truth at all.. Anatta can be realised after FOCUS 15.. without any awareness of the levels beyond 15.
My take is that the correction of perceptual error at FOCUS 42, is what is winding down the compulsive rebirthing and the enabling the perception beyond.. that is a mystery.. and i only had a tiny glimpse
Just my opinion”
Soh replied:
“Yes there are two kinds of arahats. There are those freed from fetters and rebirth without recollecting past lives and seeing the karma of beings, and there are those who obtained the three knowledges.
Tevijjā and Paññāvimutti: The Two Paths to Arahantship in the Pāli Canon
The early Pāli texts provide a clear road-map for understanding the different capacities of fully liberated beings, or arahants. Some are described as “three-knowledge” (tevijjā) saints, possessing remarkable psychic abilities, while others are equally liberated yet lack these powers. The Canon itself makes this distinction explicit, presenting two primary archetypes of the perfected individual, which differ not in their degree of freedom but in their method of attainment.
Key Points in One Paragraph
The Pāli Canon defines the three higher knowledges (tisso vijjā) as (1) the ability to recollect one's own past lives (pubbenivāsānussati-ñāṇa), (2) the "divine eye" for observing the death and rebirth of other beings according to their kamma (cutūpapāta-ñāṇa), and (3) the direct knowledge of the destruction of the mental taints, or āsavas (āsavakkhaya-ñāṇa). Every arahant must realize this third knowledge, as it constitutes enlightenment itself. The first two, however, are by-products of deep meditative absorption (jhāna) cultivated to a high degree. This leads to two recognized types of arahant: the "both-ways-liberated" (ubhatobhāgavimutta), who masters the formless meditative states and thus gains access to psychic powers, and the "wisdom-liberated" (paññāvimutta), who is freed by penetrating insight (vipassanā) alone and may not possess these supernormal abilities. The famous Susīma Sutta (SN 12.70) depicts a group of arahants who openly state they lack the first two knowledges, while suttas like the Anuruddha Sutta (AN 8.30) feature disciples who have mastered all three. The difference, therefore, lies in the specific meditative faculties developed, not in the final, unshakeable liberation from the cycle of rebirth.
1. The Three Higher Knowledges (Tisso Vijjā)
The Sāmaññaphala Sutta (DN 2) provides the classical definition of the three knowledges as fruits of the contemplative life.
# |
Pāli Term |
Content |
Canonical Locus |
1 |
Pubbenivāsānussati-ñāṇa |
The knowledge of recollecting many of one's own past lives. |
DN 2, MN 4 |
2 |
Cutūpapāta-ñāṇa |
The "divine eye"; knowledge of the passing away and reappearing of beings according to their kamma. |
DN 2, MN 4 |
3 |
Āsavakkhaya-ñāṇa |
The knowledge of the destruction of the taints (āsavas). |
DN 2, Itivuttaka 112 |
The āsavas, or "taints," are the fundamental defilements that perpetuate suffering and rebirth. They are typically listed as:
- The taint of sensual craving (kāmāsava)
- The taint of craving for existence/becoming (bhavāsava)
- The taint of ignorance (avijjāsava)
The third knowledge is the direct, experiential understanding that these taints have been utterly destroyed. The Itivuttaka (Iti 112) confirms that a monk who has perfected these three is rightly called a "tevijjo brāhmaṇo," a true "three-knowledge brahmin," having laid down the burden and become fully liberated.
2. Two Canonical Classes of Arahant
The difference in attainment of the higher knowledges maps directly onto two distinct classifications of arahants found throughout the Canon. This distinction hinges on the balance and development of two core meditative faculties: serenity (samatha) and insight (vipassanā).
2.1. Ubhatobhāgavimutta (“Liberated Both Ways”)
This arahant is described as being liberated "in both ways" because they are freed through:
- Mind-liberation (cetovimutti): The mastery of the eight meditative absorptions—the four fine-material jhānas and the four formless attainments (arūpa-samāpattis). This profound level of samatha purifies the mind and serves as the platform for psychic powers.
- Wisdom-liberation (paññāvimutti): The uprooting of the defilements through insight into the true nature of reality.
The Kīṭāgiri Sutta (MN 70) describes this individual as one who "contacts with his body and dwells in those peaceful, formless liberations that transcend form, and having seen with wisdom, his taints are destroyed." They have both the profound serenity of the formless states and the penetrating wisdom of liberation.
2.2. Paññāvimutta (“Liberated by Wisdom”)
This arahant attains liberation solely through the faculty of wisdom (paññā). While they must cultivate a sufficient degree of concentration to support insight, they do not necessarily master the four formless attainments. As the Buddha states in the Susīma Sutta, their freedom comes from seeing the nature of reality directly:
"First, there is the knowledge of the principle of causality, and afterwards, there is the knowledge of Nibbāna." (SN 12.70)
Their path is the direct application of vipassanā to understand impermanence (anicca), suffering (dukkha), and not-self (anattā), leading to the destruction of the taints. This is the definition of paññāvimutti.
The Yuganaddha Sutta (AN 4.170) clarifies that arahantship can be reached by developing serenity first, insight first, or both in tandem, confirming that the end-goal is the same regardless of the sequence.
3. Suttas Showing Arahants with the First Two Knowledges
- MN 71, Tevijja-Vacchagotta Sutta: The Buddha, speaking to the wanderer Vacchagotta, explicitly claims to be a tevijjā. He defines the three knowledges and affirms that he possesses them, while clarifying this is not a claim to constant, all-at-once omniscience.
- AN 8.30, Anuruddha Sutta: The Venerable Anuruddha, a foremost disciple renowned for his divine eye, declares his attainment in a verse: "The three knowledges have been attained; the Buddha’s teaching has been done."
- AN 5.28, Samādhaṅga Sutta: The Buddha explains that mastery of "five-factored right concentration" is the basis for attaining the higher knowledges, including past-life recollection and the divine eye. This links jhānic skill directly to these psychic feats, which are characteristic of the ubhatobhāgavimutta arahant.
4. Suttas Showing Arahants without the First Two Knowledges
- SN 12.70, Susīma Sutta: This is the locus classicus for the wisdom-liberated arahant. The wanderer Susīma questions a group of monks who have just declared their final knowledge (arahantship).
- Susīma asks: "Have you attained the various kinds of psychic powers... do you recollect your manifold past lives... with the divine eye, do you see beings passing away and reappearing?"
- The monks reply: "No, friend."
Susīma is bewildered, unable to understand how they can be arahants without these powers. The Buddha intervenes and explains to him that they are paññāvimutta, wisdom-liberated. Their liberation was secured not through psychic feats, but through a direct insight into dependent origination (paṭiccasamuppāda) and the impermanence of all phenomena. The Buddha confirms their status, stating that the knowledge of the Dhamma precedes the knowledge of Nibbāna.
5. Conclusion: Why the Difference?
The existence of these two types of arahant is not a contradiction but a reflection of the flexibility of the Buddhist path. The difference arises from three factors:
- Meditative Foundation: The first two knowledges require the profound mental stillness and power generated by mastery of the jhānas. Insight alone, focused on the three marks of existence, is sufficient to cut the fetters and achieve the third knowledge, but it does not automatically produce psychic abilities.
- Canonical Requirement: The Buddha’s core formula for liberation, repeated countless times throughout the suttas, culminates in the statement: "Birth is ended, the holy life has been lived, what had to be done has been done, there is no more for this state of being." This declaration is contingent only on the third knowledge (āsavakkhaya-ñāṇa). The first two are never presented as mandatory for release from saṃsāra.
- Individual Inclination: Disciples have different temperaments and aptitudes (carita). Some, like Ven. Anuruddha or Ven. Moggallāna, were naturally inclined toward developing concentration and psychic mastery. Others were more analytically bent and focused exclusively on the insight practices that lead directly to liberation. Both paths are valid and lead to the same unshakeable freedom.
Ultimately, the Pāli Canon presents a spectrum of saintly attainment. By distinguishing between wisdom-liberated and both-ways-liberated arahants, the teachings steer practitioners away from the error of conflating psychic displays with the true essence of enlightenment. The ultimate measure of an arahant is not the range of their special powers, but the complete and irreversible eradication of greed, hatred, and delusion.”
(Sim “liked” my message)
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Update, something relevant:
I agree with ChatGPT explanation:
The early texts give a clear reply to your friend’s worry: an arahant’s certainty that rebirth has ended comes from the “knowledge of the destruction of the taints” (āsavakkhaya-ñāṇa), not from archaeological tours through their own past lives.
Once craving and ignorance—the “fuel” of becoming—are extinguished, the mind directly knows that no new birth can arise. The Buddha repeatedly confirms that this third knowledge is both necessary and sufficient for awakening, whereas the first two super-knowledges (past-life memory and the “divine eye”) are optional extras attained only by those who master the higher jhānas.  
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1 What the third knowledge actually sees
The stock canon formula runs:
“When it is liberated there arises the knowledge: ‘It is liberated.’ He understands: ‘Destroyed is birth … there is no more of this state of being.’” (SN 22.59) 
This insight is present-time, reflexive, and causal: the mind simultaneously experiences Nibbāna (the cessation of all passion, aversion, and delusion) and sees why the cycle cannot resume—because its causes have been cut. No retrospective life-history survey is required.
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2 Texts that showcase arahants without the first two knowledges
• Susīma Sutta (SN 12.70). A group of newly-liberated monks tell the inquisitor Susīma that they cannot recall past lives, cannot see beings passing on, and possess no psychic powers—yet they are arahants. The Buddha backs them up and labels their attainment paññāvimutti, “wisdom-liberation.”  
• (Navaka) Paññāvimutta Sutta (AN 9.44). Defines the wisdom-liberated arahant as one who ends the taints through insight without necessarily mastering the formless meditations that enable psychic feats. 
These discourses prove that direct past-life vision is not a prerequisite for certitude about the end of rebirth.
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3 Why certainty does not hinge on seeing the past
3.1 Dependent origination works both forward and backward
By penetrating dependent origination in real time—seeing how ignorance → craving → becoming → birth—an arahant also sees the reverse sequence in cessation (ignorance ended ⇒ craving ended ⇒ no new becoming). The causal principle itself is enough; personal autobiographies add nothing decisive.
3.2 The fire simile
Asked where a Tathāgata goes after death, the Buddha says it is like a fire that has gone out once its fuel is exhausted; there is simply nothing left to trace . An arahant knows the fuel is gone, so the future blaze of rebirth is impossible.
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4 Answering your friend’s two points, step by step
Friend’s doubt Canonical reply
1. “If one can’t see past lives, how know the future is finished?” The arahant knows the causal mechanism and has verified that its conditions are absent, just as a doctor knows a disease won’t return when its pathogen is eradicated. SN 22.59 and every standard liberation verse rely solely on this present-time certainty, not on retro-cognition. 
2. “One must realise the ignorance that propels birth.” Exactly so—and that realisation is the third knowledge. Āsavakkhaya-ñāṇa is defined as knowing both the extinguishing of the taints and the exhaustion of ignorance and craving, which is why it guarantees no future becoming. 
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5 How you might phrase a friendly reply
“The Buddha distinguishes two kinds of arahant. Both-ways-liberated saints gain deep jhāna and often the ‘three knowledges’; wisdom-liberated saints cut the fetters through insight alone. What makes either of them sure rebirth is over is not a replay of past lives, but the third knowledge—the felt, causal certainty that craving and ignorance are finished. Think of a fire that’s run out of fuel: you don’t need to track every spark in its history to know it can’t flare up again once the fuel is gone.”
You could then cite Susīma Sutta for arahants without psychic powers, SN 22.59 for the liberation formula, and the Fire Simile (SN 44.9) to illustrate why seeing the past is unnecessary. That should address his concerns while staying faithful to the Pali Canon.
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Quick source list
1. SN 22.59 Anattalakkhaṇa 
2. Itiv 102 Āsavakkhaya 
3. SN 12.70 Susīma (dhammatalks.org) 
4. SN 12.70 (Access to Insight) 
5. AN 9.44 Paññāvimutta (dharmafarer.org) 
6. AN 2.30 Vijjā-bhāgiya 
7. AN 5.28 Samādhanga 
8. SN 44.9 Kutūhalasālāsutta 
9. AN 8.30 Anuruddha (ATI) 
10. MN 71 Tevijja-Vacchagotta (SuttaCentral) 
——
Of relevance are some excerpts from John Tan’s new book, which includes a chapter discussing rainbow body.
“This is a liberation that is both
psychological and physical. It is the freedom that comes from seeing all
phenomena—thoughts, feelings, and even the physical body—as a "radiant and
dynamic presence" without a solid, independent core. For the Taoist adept,
it is the potential to transmute the physical form into an immortal
"energy body," harmonizing the self with the cosmic flow of the Tao.
For the Dzogchen practitioner, it is the ultimate fruition of the rainbow
body—a "deathless state" where the physical elements dissolve back
into the primordial, five-colored lights from which they arose, the final
testament to the indivisibility of mind and matter.”
“* How is seamlessness realized from a non-substantialist perspective? Not by trying to merge separate things, but by deconstructing the imaginary boundary that was never truly there. No attempt is made to connect anything, for no separate "things" or "substrates" exist at all beyond valid, empty conventionalities.
* How is the experiential taste of anatta (no-self) realized? Not by annihilating a self, but by clearly recognizing the imaginary nature of the self that was never present. Hearing is always only sound; sensing is always only sensation. There is no self or agency to be found from the very start.
* How are phenomena understood as empty? Not by destroying them, but by recognizing that "things" are designations only. When there is no substrate, there are no inherent things, only conventions mistakenly reified through names.
In the same light, consider a practitioner seeking knowledge of past lives. A misunderstanding of the path leads them to search for a specific location or repository holding the records of infinite lifetimes—a cosmic archive. But this is a mistake, which is precisely why a master like Tsongkhapa rejects the notion of a storehouse-consciousness (ālaya-vijñāna). True access comes not from locating a store, but via the removal of reified obscurations, especially the deep attachments to body and mind. Just as regression therapy brings release by clearing emotional scars, spiritual realization unveils what is already present by clearing the hypnotic fog of reification. Why? Because the nature of all appearances is perfect. There is no need to look elsewhere; one must only remove what obscures the view.
This brings us to the ultimate supramundane power, the one that surpasses all others. It is not the ability to read minds or recall past lives—for these can still be objects of grasping. It is 漏尽通 (lòu jìn tōng): the supramundane power of the exhaustion of outflows. The "outflows" or "leaks" (āsava) are the fundamental taints of craving, aversion, and ignorance that create the illusion of a separate self and a solid world.
This power is not an ability to do anything new. It is the power that arises from the complete cessation of doing, the final sealing of every leak. It is the fruition of a deconstruction executed without remainder. When the outflows are exhausted, what remains is the already-perfect, zero-action radiance of being itself. This is not just another power among many; it is liberation itself, the very state that gives birth to the light and rainbow bodies as its natural, effortless, and final expression.””