(10:55
AM) Thusness: The experience is there but the clarity in terms of
insight of our nature is still not there yet. When one has not matured
the experience of anatta, emptiness, it is difficult to see the real
causes and conditions of non-dual experience and 'effortlessness' of
this experience.
(10:56 AM) AEN: oic..
(10:58
AM) Thusness: the url u send me yesterday about science and buddhism i
think is quite good. But direct experience is more important
(10:58 AM) AEN: icic..
(10:58 AM) Thusness: what is the url again?
(10:59 AM) Thusness: But the experience the author is moving from "I AMness" into seeing the non-dual aspect of this "I AMness"
(11:00 AM) AEN: the science one?
(11:00 AM) Thusness: The 'center' is still very much there. It is intertwined into his experience of non-duality.
(11:00 AM) AEN: oic..
(11:01 AM) Thusness: The glimpse of transparency is there but there is no permanent lucidity.
(11:01
AM) AEN: he said "I'd like to mention something about the sense of
"continuity" or oneness. I had a "dorje" like, lightning in a dark
night, kind of insight about a month after I transitioned to a
background Awakening with Arjuna last April, leading me to see the
"continuity" or "no difference" between, consciousness, attention, space
and objects. What I am talking about now is different, however. That
previous flash occurred within the context
(11:01 AM) Thusness: I do not know how is his progress now, but at the time of writing, it is still not really there.
(11:01
AM) AEN: of a background realization, and the sense of "being in the
background" remained. It was as if the insight was analogous to taking a
core sample of the ocean floor from a boat - the insight was the cable,
which extended out into the ocean floor, but "I" remained in the boat.
Even though the insight led to a similar recognition, is far different
when, in the full realization, you "are" the
objects,
not separate from them by any background cave. In the previous case,
the locus of my self-nature remained in the background, whereas now,
that locus of self-nature, heart, whatever, is interspersed in objects.
So basically what I am saying here is that similar insights from the
position of background and foreground may
lead
one to the conclusion that these are identical realizations, but my own
experience has shown them to be very different, based on the metaphors
of "fission" (background realization, the culmination of the sifting
out,
neti-neti process) and "fusion" (the marriage of one's self-nature,
consciousness, with objects). But try to tell that to an Advaitic
realizer!!
(11:02 AM) Thusness: Yes i read that.
(11:02 AM) AEN: icic..
(11:03
AM) Thusness: means he is very clear about this experience of witness
and phenomena but is not clear that witness is really the phenomena.
means he is clear about "I AMness" as the background is not it.
(11:03 AM) AEN: oic..
(11:03 AM) Thusness: problem lies in the not realising what is the tendency.
(11:04 AM) AEN: icic..
(11:04 AM) Thusness: and the experience of anatta.
(11:06
AM) Thusness: Actually after another 10 years of experiences, given his
sincerity, his experiences should already be fairly mature.
The 'center' is the result of karma.
(11:06 AM) Thusness: requires DO to break this entirely.
(11:07 AM) AEN: oic..
he wrote that in 1995
(11:09 AM) Thusness: If he is into Mahamudra, then he is safe and there.
(11:10 AM) AEN: ic.. yeah.. in more recent years since 1996 he started to learn from a number of tibetan masters
(11:10
AM) Thusness: This is a good illustration that one even without
understanding will come out those techniques similar to what that is
described in Dzogchen and Mahamudra.
(11:11 AM) Thusness: Then when he meets Mahamudra or Dzogchen, immediately he recognized the profundity of these teachings.
He will progress very fast from there.
(11:11 AM) AEN: icic..
(11:12 AM) Thusness: What he urgently need is to have correct view to integrate the base of all his experiences.
(11:12 AM) Thusness: and truly understand emptiness to correctly transform his experience into empty luminosity.
(11:12
AM) AEN: but those who learn from mahamudra and dzogchen not
necessarily will integrate the view rite... like ken wilber also learnt
under a few dzogchen masters
(11:13 AM) AEN: and even got his experience authenticated by at least one of them
(11:13 AM) Thusness: But emptiness must be stressed as DO to him.
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